Hi,
What is the recommended filler material to use for welding 347 stainless to a X4130 base material. The parts will not be heattreated or annealed.
THX
John
Sorry, I should have been more detailed.
I am Tig welding. I have a 1 5/8 " .058 x4130 round tubing and a 3/4 " 347 AMS 5512 .063 stainless strap. I am wrapping the stainless strap 180 degress around the tube and then fillet welding about a 1/2 " in 3 places on each side of the strap. This is for elevator hinges on an antique aircraft.
Thx
What welding process ?
What's your base material thickness ?
What type of weld ? (groove, fillet)
This is information can influence the choice of filler metal !
To Hazard a guess (not knowing your application) I would say someting like look to INCO. Thats there specialty, and they have lots of info.
I would use AMS 6457 as a first choice if not use AMS 5680.
I would make my straps out of 4130 then the AMS 6457 would be perfect.
By JohnMo
Date 08-02-2002 10:39
Thanks,
However, the a/c drawings call out for the straps to be stainless. They refer to columbium stabilized stainless, which I crossed to 347. Thanks for your reply.
You say that the application is on an antique aircraft. If the drawing specifies a stabilised stainless steel, there could be a number of reasons for this. Most probably, the reason is that in the days when this aircraft was built, there were no "L" grades of stainless around. By stabilizing the stainless, it was weldable without the big sensitivity problems associated with non-stabilised grades of the day. What I am saying, is that you would probably be OK using a L grade such as 316L or 304L.
None-the-less, the welding issues remain pretty much the same. You are welding a material that likes to be welded cold (Austenitic S/Steel) to a material that likes to be welded hot. (Cr-Mo Steel) In addition, if the weld is in any way a load bearing component, then the Cr-Mo would also want to be Post Weld Heat Treated (PWHT) while the stainless does not particularly like this.
The PWHT temperature of this material (Cr-Mo) is typically in the 600 - 750°C range. A L grade of stainless will take this heat treatment cycle without sensitization, as would a 347 stainless. The filler that you use would probably be the same for a stabilised grade, or a non-stabilised grade. I believe you would get away with using a 309L stainless, but you could use something like Inconel 82 (ERNiCr-3) if you want to be doubly sure.
Hope this helps
Regards
Niekie Jooste
By JohnMo
Date 08-04-2002 21:55
Thanks for the info.
The original strapped hinges have a tendency to crack at the weld area, which I believe is because they used 18-8 stainless in those days ( and possibly gas welded), but I'm not sure. There are drawings out to fabricate new style hinges which calls out using all columbium stabilized material. However, I am repairing my hinges per a service bulletian and all it calls out is a stainless steel strap wrapped around the existing 4130 tube. From what I understand and read that 347 would be the superior stainless for welding due to its characteristics of being columbium stabilized. The tensile strength of 347 is equal to or better than 304 and 304L.
I am looking for a filler wire that will join 347 and 4130 and give me the proper strength.
Are there any documents out there that relate to this situation?
Thanks in advance.
John
I have just re-read your post, and saw that you state that the part will not be PWHT'ed. For something like an undercarriage, I have a problem with this. This is because this component will invariably be subjected to impact loadings. As such, it needs good impact properties.
It is important to realise that no matter what filler you use, the 4130 component will be embrittled by the welding operation. I am aware that in the aviation industry they often weld 4130 without PWHT, but then the welds are placed in areas of low stress and impact loading.
Regards
Niekie Jooste
Most of the old salty dogs say Hastelloy W will weld just about any dissimilar material. Hogwash!
The burden lies on the guys who wrote the directive. If the note calls out for a dissimilar metals weld, its the repair authors responcibility to designate the filler and any pre-post heat considerations for that specific componant (noted by part number). A brief glance at the tables at my disposal doesn't even list a possible filler match for the alloys you have described. This is no time to be a cowboy. Without hard copy engineering doccumentation that will refrence a filler wire for the exact alloys your trying to join, do not proceed.
Lawrence
Thanks,
I haven't started welding yet. I'm trying to find a conclusive match. I was also looking into using 304L as a stainless strap vurses the 347. Would there be a filler material to join 304L to 4130?
Note - the original drawings and the repaiir service bulletain do not spell out the filler rod to use. Back in the 30's and 40' from what I can find they used basic 18-8 which I cross to 304 as the strap material..
So the questions is, Can you weld 304L to 4130 with a proper weld rod? Is 304L more compatible than 347 to fuseing with 4130?
Thx
Welding a 300 series S/Steel to a Cr-Mo steel is not difficult from the filler point of view. 309L or 312 will work fine, as will a number ofthe Ni based alloys. (As stated in my last post.) In addition, the welding of the stabilised grade will be little if any different to welding the 304L. This includes the filler to use.
The real concern is the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ) of the Cr-Mo steel, not the filler that you will be using. This HAZ will form irrespective of the filler you use. As I stated earlier, unless this weld is not on a structural part, or is not subject to large or impact loads, I would want to temper it following welding.
Regards
NiekieJooste
