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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / News Article: Welder Shortage Threatens Economy!
- - By commonarc (**) Date 08-26-2010 00:24
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Lack-of-skilled-workers-rb-1457929627.html?x=0#mwpphu-container

Read the comments section.  This has to be the worst news article ever written.
Parent - - By Robert48 (**) Date 08-26-2010 00:39
I came here as soon as I saw it. I agree that is the biggest crock I have heard in a while. I myself know enough out of work welders to put a dent in the "shortage". I see that there is a decrease in trades like carpentry because when the housing market went south so did the "carpenters". They ran back to Mexico with there pockets full of American Dollars to ride out the hard times were the cost of living is next to zero. But when and if the work picks back up the "carpenters" will be back. They could fill alot of those welding jobs right here in this forum if they were jobs out there.
Parent - - By commonarc (**) Date 08-26-2010 00:53
I know where they can find about 60,000 unemployed ASME certified boiler tube and plate welders on short notice. Alloys like hastelloy, inconel, stainless, chrome, nickle, etc.  We have dozens available in my local that have not worked in months, or even a year or more. Call the Boilermakers International in Kansas City.  they can put 1000 guys on a job site in 24 hours or LESS.  There's no work out there.  This is some lazy a** reporting for sure.
Parent - - By Johnny Walker (***) Date 08-26-2010 01:03
LoL this is bull man me and probably ten or more I know ain't worked in 8 months or more!! Shortage my butt!!
Parent - - By commonarc (**) Date 08-26-2010 01:43
The turd who wrote it:  Nick Zieminski (Rueters).  His article is either propaganda or just lazy reporting.   
Here is the editorial feedback link for his bosses.  Reporting like this needs to addressed:

http://reuters-en.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/reuters_en.cfg/php/enduser/ps_contact_us.php?p_sid=BFD7vELj&p_masthead=us
Parent - By eekpod (****) Date 08-26-2010 10:13
There is one thing that he got right; that parents tend to send there kids to college to get an education and stay away from the trades.
Parent - - By Chris2626 (***) Date 08-26-2010 10:14
there's no shortage but there is a shortage of people who will dam near work for free and thats what they want is high quality welds at 10 bucks an hour
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-26-2010 11:59
Gentlemen;

You are missing some salient points of the article. This article is addressing the shortage of skilled workers on a worldwide basis. It mentions the data was collected from the world's ten largest economic engines. The USA represents just one of the 10 studied and you have to consider the source of the information, "Manpower,” an employment agency that deals primarily with open shop environments.

An example of "the solution" to the shortage of skilled labor is provided by "Manpower,” who clearly has a vested interest in the "solution.” Their solution is to allow more migrant workers into the countries experiencing the shortage of skilled workers.  "Examples of successful, targeted migration include an Ohio shipbuilder that brought in experienced workers from Mexico and Croatia, and a French metal-parts maker that hired Manpower to find welders in Poland." Notice that "Manpower" provided the workers needed to solve the "problem." Their interest in finding solutions is the money they line their pockets with at the expense of the local workers.

Chris' observation is "spot on,” the companies experiencing the problems are not willing to pay the prevailing rates in the geographic area where the work is. Maybe this is where the "Davis Bacon Act" comes into play to help protect the wages of the both union and nonunion workers in the area. Employers hate the act because it forces them to pay the prevailing rates set by the government based on the wages paid in the area. However, considering examples such as the one provided by "Manpower" in the article and from a situation I heard of on the Gulf Coast where another shipyard employs workers from India and houses them on barges to minimize interaction with the locals, the "Davis Bacon Act" sounds better and better.

The shortage of skilled workers root cause is because companies are not willing to pay the money required to fill skilled positions. Corporations could care less about the conditions of the people they employ. Their overriding interest is in paying the least amount for labor and materials, charging the highest price the market will bear, and line the pockets of the executives at the expense of the workers they employ. The mantra is that the executives earn their high salaries and their bonus' because of their expertise. What expertise? They milk the pension fund and the company's assets dry and leave for the next victim.

Why would a corporation hire a local worker with the skills needed when they can bring in immigrants, legal and illegal, at less than half the cost? It is less expensive to pay off a politician than it is to pay fair wages. Just go into any meat packing plant, they truck workers to the plants, and there is no way they are all here legally. Another "Manpower" solution?

Best regards - Al
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 08-26-2010 12:11
Absolutely correct Al.  In one of our other threads there was a guy looking for overseas work, as a welder.  Not a chance!  I've been working overseas since around 1998 and don't recall EVER seeing an American, British or Canadian welder.  Not saying there aren't plenty but most are Bangladesh, Filipino, Indian, Malasian and in a few cases Korean. 

To my welder brothers in America good luck, companies who have remained in the good old USA have, in many cases, found it cheaper to have fabrication done overseas then import it back in for assembly (if even that).  Add one very large portion of corporate greed to one very large portion of labor unions asking for too damned much and the recipe spells America in the 21st Century.
Parent - By Chris2626 (***) Date 08-26-2010 19:38
The Gulf coast thing hmmmm I wonder if that would be Trinity yachts or Northrope Gruman in Pascagoula MS I could see these two companys busing them in
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 08-26-2010 17:46
It's nothing but forked tongued double speak talk of government and fat cat corporations they want to retrain the sheeples and pay less nothing short of socialism.
Parent - By hollywood1176 (*) Date 08-31-2010 15:24
I work for a coal mine here in central Alabama and I can say that there is a shortage of experienced welders applying here . I worked underground at night while going to school fulltime durring the day and it payed off as I  was able to get an outside (above ground) job because noone here could pass the test ( blue print reading and 3G 4G welding test) No one being hired as of late even knows what a welding symbol is much less extension lines. I am 34 and ppl of my age group and younger just isnt interested in getting into a trade. The ones that say they are welders really mean they know what a welding machine is . There are three bidded welders that work in our shop on various shifts that cant even begin to weld out of position.Thank God for the crane.  Its sad but it pays my bills as I work all the overtime I can stand. People being hired in our washer as pipe welders and fitters are being hired off the street because ppl in our Union are not qualified to do the work including myself. The good ole guys are beginning to retire and ppl like me eager to learn have just about come along to late. I was able to work with one of the best pipe fitter and fabricators around here for about 8 months before he retired. But its hard to fit 40 years into a 8 month trainning session. I wish there where more tradesmen around here for ppl like me to learn from. School was great and I learned alot, but Ive still got alot to learn that you just cant get there . Well thats my rant and 2 cents. The mine is hiring about 100 ppl before Jan if anyone is interested in moving to Alabama and going underground.
Parent - By magodley (**) Date 09-15-2010 18:13
Jenny Bell-Jones, Jerome, AZ said it very well in a letter to the editor, Welding Journal, June 1996. I think you can look that up in the archives of the Journal.  Shortage of wages, benefits and people willing to work for  low pay.
- - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 08-26-2010 13:00
Whether you agree with the article or not the fact of the matter is the trades are not encouraged in our high schools for the most part. I remember the trades were discussed as a carreer path when I was in high school. That does not happen in very many schools in this day and age. The article is correct when it points out this..."Older, experienced workers are retiring and their younger replacements often do not have the right training because their schools are out of touch with modern business needs. Also contributing to the shortage is social stigma attached to such work, Manpower argues in its paper published on Wednesday.

A poll of 15-year-olds by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development found only one in 10 American teenagers see themselves in a blue-collar job at age 30. The proportion was even lower in Japan.

Education could address that stigma. Students should be reminded that blue-collar work can be lucrative: skilled plumbers can make upwards of $75,000 a year, Manpower argues".

I think we need to have an emphaisis on the trades in our High Schools all across the county. Let the kids make a decision on whether they want to go to a 4 year school or the trades. By letting these kids know how much money they can make by working in the trades would be enough to draw alot of them in.

Jim
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 08-26-2010 13:18
Absolutely correct too Jim.  What 18 year old kid wants to get dirty, sweat and work his tail off now days?  A rare few.  Most want to sit at the computer all day.
Parent - By Northweldor (***) Date 08-26-2010 14:41
And in my experience, it is the parents who have instilled or encouraged that attitude, and forced it on the schools.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 09-01-2010 11:29
Wait a minute. Sit at a computer and make $30 or sweat your butt off, getting dirty, its dangerous for $20 and the companies you work for let you know your overpaid backside can be replaced "SNAP" like that with a low wage based welder in a third world country.
I show em, I teach em and help em, but I no longer encourage any person with a modicum of initiative to follow a welding career.
There are other things young people can do for a career that does not have the disadvantages of the welding trade and make better money.
And those in the trade I encourage them to upgrade their skills where they are out from under the hood.
A rodburner job is our equal to the fast food burgerflipper position.
Parent - - By commonarc (**) Date 09-01-2010 22:58
So true.  My dad told me I was CRAZY for getting into this trade back in 1988.  He was correct.  I got out from under the hood but the pay went DOWN, not up as I'm competing with young kids willing to work for nothing and as you said, third world labor. 

Any young folks out there, please pay attention.  If you are under 30, get OUT of this trade as fast as you can!  Run away and do not look back!  There is no future in this trade!  Your job status in the eyes of society will be the equal of a janitor or a dishwasher.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 09-01-2010 23:36
While waiting for their meal, a friend's wife asked for a McDonalds app. Before they finished eating, the manager stopped by and told her, starting wage was $18.00/hour!. 2 glitches, 1) gotta pass a whizz quizz, 2) 38 hours a week and no benefits.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 09-02-2010 03:44
Superflux: "starting wage was $18.00/hour!. 2 glitches, 1) gotta pass a whizz quizz" if having to pass a whizz quizz is a glitch then what would you expect?  $18 / hour for a wife (supposedly second income?) seems pretty damned good with or without benefits.  Yeah, okay maybe not as the primary breadwinner but $18 / hour is not bad either, for McDonalds????
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 09-05-2010 00:08
Jon,
yeah, now that I'm between gigs, I'd rather run a Fry-o-later and squirt secret sauce for 18 clams than weld for $16.00!
Parent - - By tim105 (**) Date 09-02-2010 03:16
I would have to disagree with you guys, welding has been very good to me. My first welding job started at 19.00 an hour in 1995 and from there it has been going up. If a person is willing to learn different processes stick, tig, welding exotic metals, you can still make decent money. Currently I am making over 5 grand a week and no I do not have a degree from a college.
Learning how to weld has been the best thing I have done in my life.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 09-02-2010 11:30
I am the same. I have done very well in the welding field.
But seeing where the industry has gone in the last 20 years and looking out the next 20 is this a business and industry where I would recommend a person in high school to pursue?
If a person is willing to accept the chicken and feathers of this business, willing to learn new things and not afraid of travel one can do quite well. But the days of a kid out of high school getting a production welding job for decent wages and benefits are over. The industry is lying to the entry level workers about what a great career this is. It is not clean, it is not safe and your future is not secure. They will send your job to a low wage base country faster than you can say profit margins.
Guys that pursue specialty welding or rig welders that look at welding as a business can and do well.
Very well.
I do the same as a contract inspector. I do not look at any company I work for as a employer. They are a client and a customer. I do not expect any benefits except the check come when they and the thing cash. I expected to be treated well and fair and when the job or project is over, we shake hands and go on to the next one. But I work with a lot of contractors that treat their people like slaves. Their management has nothing but contempt for their field people. This is what ticks me off about a lot of the industry.
This is not to say I have not worked with contractors that treat their people well and with respect. They pay well. But when it comes to the nut cutting and a job goes to the low bidder, usually these are not the ones that get the work.
And if you believe the welding industry is a great place, encourage others to follow you. My view is: Would I want my son/daughter/grand-daughter to be in this business? and the answer is no.
Parent - - By commonarc (**) Date 09-04-2010 02:35
Please do enlighten us 25 year welding vets on the $5000 a week jobs in Utah or $250,000 per year +?  I worked in NY City once while in the union less than 10 years ago.  Seven 12 hour shifts and we grossed close to that but not quite.  Highest pay scale in the entire nation is NYC union scale.   

Where does tim105 in Utah make such a great wage burning rod?  Or is it a secret  :) 
You must be one heck of a rod burner to compete with all those Mexicans willing to work for $300 a week.

Please share your secrets or at least PM me!  Thanks
Parent - By tim105 (**) Date 09-04-2010 15:05
Commonarc, first of all I am not in any Union, and never will be in one. I am a rig welder and we work five 12 hour days a week installing compressors out in the field.
I am not any more special than the next welder, but i do like and enjoy welding and I when I see an opportunity to better myself, I take advantage of it.
The reason I posted this in the first place was that there's a lot of negative posts about being a welder and how the wages are going to hell and the gloom and doom about the profession.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 09-06-2010 02:40
These guys making good money are not employees, they are self employed welding contractors.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 09-06-2010 15:28
Making $5K a week right now on a pipeline job is doable in Utah. UNEV PL and Kern River later this year.
But again it is chicken and feathers. Was he making $5K in January/February this year?
Right now I am working 6-10's and doing real decent. But after the first of the year, I am cutting back to limit my income.
I believe in a even field, but not spreading the wealth.
I hope the technology makes up for the knowledge that will be leaving the industry in the next 10 years. I had the opportunity to do some aluminum welding, flat with a new Miller machine. Aluminum is NOT my game. However, with a little coaching in about 5 minutes I could make a decent looking weld. I remember having to put a knot on the tungesten with a penny and all the other things with aluminum years ago. This was simply me doing the puddle, add rod, puddle, etc.
But you still have to train the little darlins on the basics. Heat, puddle and adding filler. Having met several welding educators, the future is not grim, the problem comes when the little darlins hit the work force and find out the companies care little for them nor appreciate their skills.
Parent - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 09-07-2010 16:50
That's always the truth; you can have all the technology in the free world, but welding is welding is welding, and if you want to be successful the only way to learn is to do...practice, practice, practice.  Our trade is not going away, but like everywhere else in industry nowadays, the customers are expecting - demanding - greater quality, less cost, on-time delivery.  We either adapt to the market, find something else to do or starve.
Parent - - By Chris2626 (***) Date 08-26-2010 19:46
Jim I must agree, my father is a trim carpenter outta work and he always said if you want to go to college fine and if not thats fine to. The main thing was do what you love to do and after many jobs I found it I enjoy welding and have found you can make alot at it. I tried college it wasn't for me. Alot of guys where i work say you need to go back to school and I'm like what hell I did for welding. I could never see my a** sitting in an office, I'm blue collar all the way and the way I see it is if it wasn't for blue collar people like me all these dam office people wouldn't have that cushy a** office job you know.
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 08-26-2010 19:55
I describe my position as "light blue" collar,  it's about 50% office and 50% shop.  I check fit ups, re-qual welders, do inspections now and then, but other times I'm inthe office, doing paperwork, certs, contacting others onthe computer, it's about 50-50 for me.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 08-26-2010 20:15
I have always said that welding is the only skill that allows you to begin with very little knowledge or skill, but with initiative allows the practitioner to advance to whatever level is desired. You can be a welder in the Midas Muffler Shop or advance to the PhD. Name your own poison.

I enjoyed life as a welder for twenty plus years. I discovered I could make more money burning electrode than I could with a degree in structural design. That being said, I had even more fun, but possibly earned slightly less money as an inspector. Now with more education and training, I have more flexibility and increased earning potential without having to work up a sweat while under the hood on hot summer days or shivering on cold winter days. That is very enticing in my old age.

Best regards -Al
Parent - - By jsdwelder (***) Date 08-27-2010 18:34
Al brings up an excellent point. When I speak to prospective welding students I always remind them that knowing how to weld doesn't mean you will forever have to be a welder. Not that it is a bad thing, but there is so much potential for advancement in this trade. It can lead to many other positions that all stem from welding -inspector, supervisor, educator, engineer and so on. The thing that I think our public schools are forgetting is when they want a fancy new school built in their town years from now....who's is going to build it?
Parent - By awspartb (***) Date 08-27-2010 19:10
Who's going to build it?  Mexicans and other Third World labor, that's who.  Scan some of the welding ads on the internet.  Spanish speaking and sensitivity to other cultures is a must!  Have you been to a construction site in the south west these days?
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 08-27-2010 19:47
A great deal of the problem lies with the culture of entitlement and instant gratification prevalent in our youth these days.  In my high school days I was told continually that if I wanted to live well I would have to go to college.  Well, here I am, still have not been college educated, and still pull down a decent living.  I don't toot my horn, but I do believe strongly that my willingness to get out of my comfort zone contributed heavily to my opportunities in life.  Kids these days, they sit their butts on the couch and wait for someone to call them offering the world.  The ones who get out and do something with their lives, who show initiative and interest in something are the ones who become successful.  Seems everyone else just wants a cookie for nothing.  I feel this is predominantly a problem with American kids and that it has its roots in the social-liberal movements of the sixties and seventies.  I look at myself and honestly cannot remember my folks ever pushing me to do anything, and that's a shame.  Every kid should have someone trying hard to motivate him or her to excel.
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 08-27-2010 20:31
Curt
You nailed it.
Marshall
Parent - - By awspartb (***) Date 08-30-2010 01:14
Lots of blue collar welding jobs on the internet are requiring an engineering degree these days.  I love it!  Go to college for 4 years and they hand you a set of prints and welding gloves and tell you to build it.  Too funny!
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-31-2010 02:28
That sounds like My life when I was a journyman tool & die maker. Here are the prints, build it. If You can't, they don't need You.
Parent - By Mat (***) Date 09-02-2010 03:20
I'd say that my collar was blue, but nine times out of ten it ends up sawdust brown or grease black.

I think welding is a starting point for branching into other trades.  Eventually I would like to become a welding instructor, but that goal is years down the road.
- - By jeff parker (**) Date 09-26-2010 20:13
I have a buddy that went to a 4 year university, got his degree and also went to graduate school for another year or two.  the last time we talked he was taking a job for 45,000 a year, last year I made 122,000 working turnarounds and outages and some pipeline jobs, and the year before that I made about the same.  yea he's sitting in an office somewhere but hell I like being outside anyway, and I like being around people that dont have there feeling's on there shoulders for me to hurt LOL, I personaly know several people who have degree's from universities who cant find work, and are calling me to ask if I could help them find a job in the trade just so they can pay there student loans back LOL.  there is one who has a degree in computer programming/science and he is currently working as a form carpenter for cajun construction and I helped him in with those guy's.  I take a shower every day so I dont care if I get dirty or greasy but every friday when I can take one paycheck and pay one month worth of bills off and save the other 3 paychecks then I know i made the right choice in getting in the trade.
Parent - By New-Welder1 (*) Date 09-27-2010 00:11
I,ve seen the same situation your talking about.
Im 23 so still fairly new to the trade but when i was in school it was crammed in my head that  i should go to college, that i wouldnt be happy in a trade.
Well all the people i went to high school with who went to college and  have degrees now, most of them are working at 7/11 or walmart because they cant find a job in their field, Whyll im working in a shop in the field of my choice.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / News Article: Welder Shortage Threatens Economy!

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