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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Writing a Prequalified WPS
- - By mccanntech Date 09-28-2010 23:56
I am a CWI and a high school welding instructor trying to qualify students. During the CWI prep course they teach you how to measure and inspect welds but nothing about documentation. I am unsure how to write a prequalified WPS using D1.1. I want my students to do an open root on 3/8 plate with 6010 root and 7018 fill and cover. Is there a prequalified proceedure that covers this, or do I have to buy a WPS?
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-29-2010 00:33
John,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

1) NO.  There is not a pre-qualified joint for that procedure under D1.1.  You could do it with API 1104.

2) You cannot "buy" one either because it does not exist as a pre-qualified.  The ones AWS sells through the bookstore are only available on certain 'Pre-Qualified' joints, processes, electrodes, etc.

3) For any Pre-Qualified you will need to use 7018 only.  And as far as prepping them for Structural Steel applications per D1.1 that is all you would want to do anyway.  Non Low Hydrogen electrodes have a very limited usage in D1.1. 

To be Pre-Qualified you either need a backing plate or backgouging, Low Hydrogen processes, and all other factors stipulated in D1.1.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By mccanntech Date 09-29-2010 12:56
Thanks a lot. Do you know of any classes or seminars available that address WPS writing and other documentation? I've never worked under another CWI to learn that part of the trade. I got my CWI to be able to take my students further, but without knowledge of proper documentation I feel like I'm wasting it. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Parent - - By steelman7018 (*) Date 09-29-2010 13:27
Brent,

Not to argue but doesn't Table 3.1 allow electrodes other than 7018 (ie. 60XX)?
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-29-2010 14:15
Nice catch  :)

Table 3.1   Group I
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-29-2010 14:36
Steelman,

Yes, D1.1 Table 3.1 allows other than low hydrogen and I expressed that there were a few exceptions to the 'nothing but low hy' concept (at least I think I did).  But, look at the steels that are included in that.  It would extremely limit the qualification of the welder who qualified/certified using anything besides low hy.  If you use all low hy you are qualified to run other rods (F4 can run F3).  But, if you qualify with the F3 group you restrict what you can do.  So you would limit the steels you could weld on and the procedures you could use to do it.  EDIT: yes, look at the end of my previous point #3.

The question becomes 'Why limit yourself?' 

You also must be much more concerned with clean materials and especially pre-heat and interpass temps with the other electrodes.  Check out Table 3.2.

The next issue is:  You will not find a structural steel job that will allow for the use of anything other than low hydrogen electrodes on any part of the Structural Steel.  Read through the General Notes on the Architecturals and Structurals and they will all stipulate Low Hydrogen for all structural welding by currently qualified welders with experience in the work being done.

Look also then at Clause 3.13.  It specifically states that 'Pre-Qualified' welds will be as detailed in Figure 3.4.  There are no open root examples given.  For a pre-qualified joint it MUST either have backing or be backgouged.  So the type of joint asked about in the original question is not possible as stated by the OP. 

That doesn't mean you can't have the students practice and weld that way.  And/or set it up as an example of the pipe welding industry.  But as being applicable to D1.1, it is not. 

An instructor teaching students the practical and useful aspects of welding should be concentrating upon those skills and procedures which will benefit the students the most.  In very few circumstances will a 6010 or 6011 root be used and capped with 7018 WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH D1.1. (capitalized to emphasize that point: D1.1)

John,  yes there are classes.  Al Moore has been writing some articles in the 'Inspections Trends' which is now available on line on the AWS website on WPS preparation.  There is a day long seminar at the upcoming FABTECH Convention in Atlanta in Nov on WPS preparation.  And there are others as well.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By mccanntech Date 09-29-2010 17:23
Great Info. Thanks
Parent - - By natecf (*) Date 09-29-2010 14:26
there is a seminar at this year's fabtech show called "the how and why of welding procedure specifications" it seems like it would cover what you are looking for.
I too am in the same boat as you.I had to figure it out myself. you can write a prequalified wps from d1.1 basically you need to concentrate on section 3. the info is all there, the essential variables are the key. some of the filler metal info you can get from the manufacturers websites. other info you can get from running actual welds : amps/wfs/ travel speed etc.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-29-2010 14:46
The "How and Why"  seminar is very good..  as is the "Roadmap to D1.1"

If the presenters are listed, Look for Kenneth Coryell,   Ken is the best of the best.  Knows procedures in great depth and is a very good presenter. He adds many real life examples that he has been involved with over the years.
Parent - - By flaguy (*) Date 09-29-2010 14:50
Here's something that may help you get started: http://www.modernsteel.com/Uploads/Issues/May_1997/9705_03_welding.pdf
The original title was What Every Engineer Should Know About Welding Procedures. 

There is some very good inexpensive software ($250 or so) that will guide you through writing prequalified (and qualified by testing) welding procedures.  There is also some very expensive software ($2,000+), but that's probably much more than you need.
Parent - By swnorris (****) Date 09-29-2010 16:28
I'm using Lincoln ArcWorks.  It's free, or at least it was when I downloaded it..
- By fschweighardt (***) Date 09-29-2010 21:55 Edited 09-30-2010 15:33
The real question is do you want to qualify people or procedures (or both).  If you qualify the welder (person) per section 4, he can weld any pre-qualified joint (with a few restrictions, mostly thickness) on most base metals (again with a few restrictions, mostly pre-heat).

Table 4.11 gives thickness and diameter qualified as well as the type of production weld

It looks like you will be able to go from 1/8-3/4" on prequal welds and 1/8 to unlimited on fillets (30 deg dihedral restriction)

Use 7018 and the person will be set up for all F#.  If you do the 3/8 single v with backer, your welder will be set for most non-tubular work.

We do a ton of high school qualification at our local section and we start with a 1G limited thickness standard D1.1 performance qual test (Fig 4.31).  If the student is more advanced, we throw in a couple of more positions.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Writing a Prequalified WPS

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