Grinder guards??

By stanantonio Date 10-22-2010 05:24

Just think when you are gonna have to wear a hard hat with your hood. Its coming sooner than later. Welding engineers and safety engineers make this stuff a policy and never step outta there company truck on the ROW. You're just gonna have to deal with it I guess or just sit at the house. I don't know but I agree with you. I am not sure if they just try to factor in stupid idealogy or just try to make themselves busy makeing upper managment think there getting there money worth. By writing and impleminting new safety practices.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-22-2010 10:08

I already have to wear a hard hat with my shield....been that way for the past 27 years that I've been with this company.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 10-22-2010 11:25

You have never seen a wheel blow up.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-22-2010 11:32

right.....those lil 4.5" grinders turn 11,000 revolutions per minute, use good discs that are rated for 12,000.

A small chunk off of a disc hurling around at 11,000 rpms is gonna leave a mark if it hits flesh. I kinda like having that lil metal shield somewhere between the 11,000 rpm disc and my throat....think about it.

By Johnny Walker (***)

Date 10-22-2010 12:18

Yeah I have just ain't scared I got the scars !

By joe pirie (***)

Date 10-22-2010 15:52

got tossed from the gas companies test yard for no guard on 9" grinder

By jarsanb (***)

Date 10-22-2010 16:51

A guy died in my state this year on a gas pipeline for a shattered grinding wheel going through his chest or neck. The comment about management not knowing anything or state regulations mandating these kind of issues being unnecessary is kind funny. What are they supposed to do? If I guy isn't very bright or is going to intentionally jeopardize his safety or others are they just supposed to let them die? Or kill someone else? Or lose an eye? Well if they weren't going to get sued by those families affected, maybe they wouldn't care. Just like people complaining about the pancake hoods not being allowed. I have no issues with a welder using one on our system, but if he's leaning on the pipe with his pancake on top his head with no other eye protection being used and his helper is grinding away what do I do? Hope nothing gets in eye cause he to damn arrogant to protect his own future or his families? You hear all the time, "I've been doing this for 20 years and have never seen anyone get hurt by....". These precautions are there for a reason, because people do get hurt.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-22-2010 17:19 Edited 10-25-2010 22:22

A guy in my car club had to have pieces of a cut-off wheel surgically dug out of his knee....wheel blew apart and there was no guard. He was lucky it was his knee instead of his chest or throat.

EDIT: added links to pics of my buddy's knee(warning: graphic pics) from the cut off wheel incident.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Picture023.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...Picture022.jpg

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 10-22-2010 18:02

It would be hard for me to gripe about a rule for a guard on a grinder. Do they get in the way sometimes....yes of course they do. Is it a pain to have to move one around to the right angle and tighten back down for 1 min of grind...yep. I got a six inch scar on the top of my thigh that reminds me what that guard is for. Secondly even with a guard (or without)....very little do I see guys pay attention to where the plane of rotation lines up.....how many guys you see grind with the plane pointed at there face...like grinding a start/stop on a root? Same thing with bench grinders/cut off saws....I always stand off to the side a bit even if it has a shield on it. I have seen enough blow up and get out of hand and bounce or grab some clothing.....I will take the guard and take a little longer to do the job.

my $.02

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-22-2010 18:52

I won't say that I've never removed the guard, because I have....Using a flap disc to polish something flat, and the guard won't let you lay the grinding surface completely flat on the material. I won't say that is an excuse, but I'm just saying that I'm not completely innocent.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 10-23-2010 03:42

John I forgive you for not being "innocent" lol

I do not think I have ever seen a flap disc that would bury pieces in your face (thru a shield) or other parts of your body even on a 20,000 rpm rig. A big ole 9" wheel is a whole nother animal

By stanantonio Date 10-23-2010 02:11

I'm just curious Jwright so is the next safety issue cause the guy as you stated earlier in this forum had to have peices of a fragmented cut-off wheel disc surgically removed from his knee that the solution is to have knee protection while grinding???

By L51174

Date 10-23-2010 03:01

Pretty soon we'll all be wearing kevlar underwear and proximity suits, working through bullet proof glove bags, in an inert environment, with low voltage battery operated tools, a grounding strap, helmet, mouthpiece, respirator, accompanied by a hole watch and fire watch, and three different kinds of hearing protection.

Im joking of course. Alot of safety regs make sense, though I agree that some of them don't, sometimes.

By stanantonio Date 10-23-2010 04:07

L51174 you are just thinking you are joking. Cause that is what it will come to soon or the latter and I am really not trying to be the conspericey theroist. But it takes a group (I am not union) to stand up or lay down and say we are not tolorating this. After all we are the ones that bring in the profitt margins on the ground floor I've wobbeled before and would do it again on a company that is unjusting by changing policies or pay while on the same job.

By RANDER

Date 10-24-2010 06:12

Study up on your "Union History". It is labor unions that have fought for safer work practices in this country. "I" believe the Unions best contribution to industry is the push for safer workplaces and practices. I have never seen any union member pushing for greater efficiency....however that may just be me......;)....................Take a picture of your kids to work one day and promise them you will work safe and come home in one piece. Thats all that matters to them.

By stanantonio Date 10-23-2010 03:01

Guard or no gaurd cause this could have happened even if you have a gaurd on.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-25-2010 14:36

I would be willing to bet that the lil metal grinding shield would have taken care of his knee and deflected the debris, but your idea about wearing knee guards is a good idea ....if it prevents the injury from occuring in the first place.

Worrying about wearing the protection "after" the injury has taken place would be pretty foolish IMHO...kinda like reaching for the seatbelt as you're about to get slammed head-on by a vehicle that just crossed the centerline into your lane.

By Johnny Walker (***)

Date 10-25-2010 15:46 Edited 11-09-2010 11:47

deleted

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-25-2010 22:25

Added pics to my post about my buddy in our camaro club.....yuk, he took these pics while waiting in the ER with his camera phone....sick rascal...LOL

By Blaster (***)

Date 10-24-2010 01:03

We use grinders with guards on pipe in all positions every day. What supposedly is the risk associated with the guards?

I know the risks without them. A guy I worked with had a 9" let loose and cut his nut sack - requiring medical care. He was very lucky almost all of the wheel missed him. A local kid had his front teeth knocked out and the roof of his mouth damaged by a 4.5" wheel another guy was using about 20' away. A guy knocked out a set of flourescent lights and put a dent in the ~20' high wooden board ceiling of our shop feathering a pipe tack with a little .090" cutting disc.

By ronnie taylor (**)

Date 10-24-2010 02:29 Edited 10-24-2010 02:35

I've had a couple wheels blow and both times it was my fault. I felt it in the grinder before it blew.

EDIT: I did have a guard on it.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-25-2010 14:40

The wheels that I've personally witnessed come apart were on grinders where the operator had dropped the grinder sometime before....I'm betting that the disc suffered a fatal blow when it hit the floor or while it was on it's way to the floor.(in these cases it is hard to blame the disc)
We purchase a decent grade of disc, but that doesn't mean that they are perfect and can't come apart.

By Black Wolf (**)

Date 10-25-2010 04:18

"Up Here" (Canada) we are required to have grinder guards with a minimum 120° Sweep on them, so all of my guards are cut down, and the edges of the guards are nicely rounded off to remove any sharp corners. Also, I use the newer Makita GA series of angle grinder with the quick release guards that are easy to reposition, and have a couple of older 9015DBZ with the quick release guards.

Now, primarily I do repair and manintenance work on a rental fleet of Oilfield Equipment... In the past, I have built Bed Trucks, Winch Tractos, Picker Trucks etc and even though I do not weld on pipelines for a living, I do repairs on 2" - 10" pipe at times at work.

For the life of me, I do not remember one single situation where I HAD to remove a grinder guard to get a job done. When I DID, it was because I was using the wrong grinder, or the wrong size of consumable... Now-a-days, I use a combination of 5" and 6" grinders for the simple fact that a fresh 6" disk will reach much farther than a fresh 5" will.

No disrespect to anyone is intended, I just do NOT understand why anyone would view an un-guarded angle grinder as "Safe"

For the record, I do not own a DeWalt grinder, so I have never seen the warning about the use of the guard on pipe.

By Skaggydog (**)

Date 10-22-2010 19:22

I will NOT use a guard on a grinder (well.. if the situation is right I will) but guards are too dangerous. I've worked in 19 different shops, was safety chairman in 3 of them. Only in one did we keep the guards on the grinders, they were part of the grinder body and could not be removed. I've been cut a couple of times and have seen many others cut. I've seen a few really bad cuts, one guy almost bled to death and had 9 surgeries to be able to work his arm good again. Only seen one blade explode leaving a piece in a mans foot. In most cases I beveive guards are more dangerious than not.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 10-22-2010 19:43 Edited 10-22-2010 19:45

OSHA regs are written in blood..

Defeating built in safety precautions is a bad choice. Something like 85% of grinder related injuries are attributed to operators knowingly removing safety guards.

If removing the guard is the only way to do the job. you are probably using the wrong tool.

Nothing personal...

Most of the time, grinder guards are taken off because the operators are in a hurry, or too lazy to adjust them to the proper position. Production is not so important that we risk out lives.

People use similar arguments with seat belts and motorcycle helmets... Thousands of lives are saved and in one or two wierd situations the helmet or belt caused a further injury. That does not discount their value.

By rodofgod (**)

Date 10-22-2010 20:35

Hi All!

I cannot believe you are talking about removing guards on grinders! Overhere in the UK and even in Europe, this is a complete no-no, you would get sacked straight away for such a thing!

Regards

By joe pirie (***)

Date 10-22-2010 20:59

here in the USA ive worked for companies that will fire you on the spot
for removing a guard on a grinder. other companies will send yo home for acouple of days with no pay.
besides that if YOU remove the guard and are hurt workmans comp is going to blame you as a
contributing factor to any injuries sustained

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 10-22-2010 21:00

There's an old say Glen and I'm sure you have probably heard it before...

"Well, you just can't fix stupid! ;)" One always wants to be able to show "Stupid" the error in their ways, but if they don't want to even attempt to crack open that friggin steel trap of a door which leads to their own mind, then there's really not much anyone can do except make them aware and have them pay dearly for the consequences of their own actions. :( Even though they probably already paid dearly from a physical perspective.

Respectfully,
Henry

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 10-22-2010 21:53

I have "modified" guards for certain grinding situations. There is still a guard on the grinder but it suits the need better than the stock guard. No it is not right, but a happy medium in my mind.

By Johnny Walker (***)

Date 10-22-2010 23:52

Go to the store and read the box that a new grinder is in what does it say ?? It says do not use grinder guard on pipe at least a dewalt does!

By Skaggydog (**)

Date 10-22-2010 23:55

Well, Lawrence and ssbn727, how many hours do you have behind a grinder? I have plenty and not because I am "stupid" as ssbn727 would like to call me. I am not "lazy" ether. I have no issues with the short time it takes to put on or take off a guard, but most of the time (almost all of the time) the guard will be off. I will not risk my health because some pencil pusher says that a grinder always needs a guard. If you are clumsy, inexperienced, inattentive or you really are dumb, then yes, do not remove the guard. I will NOT use a grinder with a guard unless the situation warrants it, a grinder is too dangerous.

By Northweldor (***)

Date 10-23-2010 00:23

I'm sure that both of these people equal or exceed your hours of experience, but the real issue is that what you are saying makes no sense. I always found it easier to use a grinder without a guard, but I never tried to delude myself into thinking it was safer! ( especially after I got away with only a lightly scarred stomach after the grinder chewed through my Carhardts).

By Johnny Walker (***)

Date 10-23-2010 00:28

Don't mean to pick fights on here just thought someone would read the manufactors box then tell me why the safety people do the opposite ?

By alan domagala (**)

Date 10-23-2010 00:36

Why would it say do not use a grinder guard on pipe?

By Northweldor (***)

Date 10-23-2010 00:49

Could you quote exactly what you are referring to?

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 10-23-2010 01:00

I do not care what the box says. The guy that signs my paycheck requires me to be sure guards are on grinders. You can show me a conex full of different grinders that say not to use it on pipe.
Don't care.
Having spent a many hours on 9 inchers and overseeing a lot of welders using grinders, removing a guard is not smart. You get away with it, good for you.
Again, I dont care. I can find a lot of welders but replacing this gig would be hard. Welder no use guard, no use welder.

By Johnny Walker (***)

Date 10-23-2010 01:21

That's your opinion the quote is " do not use grinder guard on pipe" surfs up kahuna

By Johnny Walker (***)

Date 10-23-2010 01:24

Next they'll want a guard on a welding rod to keep sparks from burnin u

By stanantonio Date 10-23-2010 01:43

I am just wandering when enough is enough seriously.... I am all for safety but I do think that sometimes it just goes to far and some times way to far. I wont work for a company thats what I call "too safe" and let me explain so I dont get a label of being dumb. But here is the reason why I wont work for a company that is super safety oriented. If you want me to wear safety glasses with foam around them and cut resistant gloves under my leather gloves, steel toed boots and your tie off policy is any elevated work above 4ft and a thirty questionare JSA or JHA every morning. I dont want to work for you cause from my expierence these companies have less respect or value of there skilled trades hands or they have way to many underqualifed tradesmen. Heres a thought to you paper pushers... Instead of increasing your safety mandates cause you companies have to many recordables or near misses. I think you will save more money by giving your skilled tradesmen more money (Which will attract more skilled hands) and give stricter drug tests and alot harder compentancy tests which will weed out your more likely vunerable safety issues and you will save even more money buy not having to buy all that extra safety crap and all that wasted time trying to be safe to your undaunting retarted safety practices and you will get more production which will cut your job cost's. Heck whatta do I know I'm just a dumb redneck welder right? There's a thing called accepted risk or comes with the job. Thats construction in case you paper pushers didn't know. I've had a few flash burns and a few times I have had to go to the eye doctor for debri in my eye and yes I was wearing safety glasses and a face shield. But sometimes it happens anyway but the answer is not foam lined glasses that fog up and you cant see. I accept the risk that this is the kind of trade I do for a living and it comes with the trade. You will NEVER EVER engineer out stupid people.(Unless you dont hire them) So hire competent people first and if need be make youre unskilled hands wear a foam lined protection suit and stick'em in a full face motorcycle helmet and let the rest us skilled hands do what we do best.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 10-24-2010 14:38

Skilled hands get way more injuries than rookies.

Because they "think" they know something.

Purposfully defeating built in safety fetures is foolish.

All this blather about what a salty old veteran you are is just a bunch of BS to the ER physician who will be pulling metal out of your eye or removing grinder chunks from your abdomen.