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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Design calls 70XX SMAW for structural steel.
- - By Skaggydog (**) Date 11-09-2010 21:18
We will want to use FCAW.  The material is A992 and A36.  What should I mention in the RFI?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-09-2010 21:50
When in doubt, ask.

Al
Parent - By Skaggydog (**) Date 11-09-2010 22:34
Well Al, that’s what I was thinking of doing with the RFI.  I was just wondering what my argument could be other than faster production.
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-09-2010 23:02
Before putting anything in writing, discuss the matter with your client explaining him the reasons for which you want to change the specification.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 11-10-2010 01:10
You could bring up the precedent that it's allowed in D1.1?

Hg
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-10-2010 04:40 Edited 11-10-2010 04:54
Many engineers operate under the false assumption that all 70 ksi filler metals meet low hydrogen requirements. We know that isn't the case. When you write the RFI you should list the specific flux core electrode you propose to use and include the brand name. Provide verification the weld deposit meets the low hydrogen requirements as specified by AWS and ASTM for welding the ASTM A992.  One means of accomplishing your goal is to send the EOR a copy of the WPS you intend to use with all the particulars listed.

We know that not all flux cored electrodes are created equal. A sharp engineer would consider other factors beside the ultimate tensile strength of the filler metal when making a decision on which filler metal will provide the optimum properties required meeting anticipated service requirements. Conditions such as static versus cyclic loading, lowest anticipated service temperature and whether there is a concern with notch toughness, the  need to meet low hydrogen requirements, or possibly a chemical match for enhanced resistance to corrosion should be considered when selecting the filler metal. He should compare the published properties of the electrode you propose to use and determine if it meets the service requirements of the project. In this case, with the limited information provided, I don't see why the EOR would reject your proposal provided the low hydrogen requirements are meet.

A simple inquiry should at least provide the EOR with the assurance you respect his opinion and you are not making decisions without his input. It should give him the satisfaction that he is dealing with a professional that understands how the system should work. Should he have an opportunity to work with you in the future he will recall your courtesy and professionalism.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Skaggydog (**) Date 11-10-2010 16:19 Edited 11-10-2010 17:28
Al,
Thank you for taking the time to answer.  Now my thinking is in the right direction for the RFI.
Or, I guess, I should be doing a Request for Change ? Substituton Request ?
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 11-10-2010 17:28
It is very common to see "E70xx" on the contract drawings.  9 times out of 10, the drafter/designer just copies what they have seen on other drawings (boiler plate details) and figure the finer points will be worked out by others.  Rarely(more like never) do you find that the designer is restricting welding to SMAW - they just don't know the difference.

So if you ask the owner about using FCAW instead, they usually just tell you they "don't care just weld it per D1.1"  To cover yourself, RFI the owner/engineer saying that the contract drawings designate E70xx but you would like permission to use FCAW.  State that your welding will be in accordance with D1.1 and either submit WPS's with the RFI or note when they will be submitted.

If you are having drawings detailed from the contract drawings, you can have your detailer change "E70xx" to "E70 electrodes IAW D1.1" (or they can add the WPS number to the welding symbol tails).
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-10-2010 18:07
I'm glad Chet confirms what I've said on my posting above. Before making any change, you should notify your client and get his approval. My advice is that before putting anything in writing, you have a conversation with your client during which all doubts can be cleared up.
Then, the written document will be just a (necessary, of course) formality. 
Giovanni S. Crisi

Heck! I've never seen that quantity of abbreviations before! Abbreviations that I don't know what they mean (after all, English is not my mother language)  

RFI: ?
WPS: ?
IAW: ?
EOR: ?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-10-2010 18:11
I'll take a stab at these.

RFI = Request For Information
WPS = Welding Procedure Specification
IAW = In Accordance With
EOR = Engineer Of Record
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-10-2010 18:27
Boy, I think you batted 1.000 there John.  Not bad for a working guy.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Design calls 70XX SMAW for structural steel.

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