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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Brittle SMAW welds
- - By tmetro Date 11-15-2010 02:24 Edited 11-15-2010 02:54
Please excuse the amateur question, but I'm seeking expert advice on troubleshooting the cause of brittle SMAW welds made with a Harbor Freight/Chicago Electric 80 Amp Inverter Arc Welder (91110).

I'm starting with the assumption that the welder is capable of making good welds (within its limits) based on the product reviews and YouTube videos I've seen, but in my experience I've consistently ended up with brittle welds that basically just fall apart. Often developing a crack as it cools.

Here are some things I've tried:
-Various electrodes:
Chicago Electric 1/16" E6013
Chicago Electric 1/16" E7014
Lincoln Electric 3/32" E6011
Lincoln Electric 3/32" E6013
(Others have reported success using several of these electrode types with this welder.)
-A range of current settings.
-Reversing the polarity.

Supposedly brittle welds can result from oxygen contamination and flux inclusion (1, 2, 3). These causes would point to bad electrodes. Maybe buying electrodes at Harbor Freight and Lowes (the boxes were pretty dusty at Lowes) is a bad idea, and I'd be better off finding fresher electrodes at a welding supply store, but it seems unlikely that all 4 boxes would have been consistently bad. (I tried a stick or two from each when they were fresh from the store, so I can't blame it on how I stored them.)

Although I've had successful experiences with MIG welding and braising, I am admittedly inexperienced with SMAW and have not spent much time using this welder yet (as clearly can be seen in the embarrassingly ugly weld in the pictures below), so the cause could certainly be my technique, however I'm not producing bad welds just some of the time. It's 100%. I'm finding it hard to see what I could be doing so consistently wrong, especially in light of the dozens of YouTube videos showing this welder being used successfully by amateurs using nothing special for a technique.

Here are some photos of a recent attempt where I tried welding a 1" square tube to a 3/16" plate (using., I think, the Lincoln Electric 3/32" E6013 electrodes). I tried this weld 3 or 4 times, each time using a different electrode type, with essentially identical results.

Here's the stock:





The setup:



The resulting weld:



Here you can see a longitudinal crack that formed as it cooled:



Applying a small amount of pressure and it easily breaks free:



An end view of the tube showing blow through on the left and penetration on the right:



Perhaps chamfering the end of the tube was pointless.

A view of the plate after the slag has been cleaned off. Very little grinding will bring the surface back to what it was before the weld attempt. In this case all but one of the blobs fell off with light grinding, so there's basically no evidence of penetration.



These last few photos illustrate another problem I'm seeing. I'm simultaneously experiencing both blowouts and poor penetration. Blowouts on the vertical piece and almost no penetration on the horizontal piece. Cranking up the current should improve penetration, but it'll also make the blowouts more likely. At least for this problem I'm more inclined to blame my technique.

If the cause of the brittle welds isn't technique, electrode selection, or material, that only leaves the welder itself.

Are there malfunctions in the power source that would explain these results?

-Tom
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 11-15-2010 03:51
Looks to me like you are holding an arc length that is way too long.  That will spread out your heat preventing penetration, allow the arc to flash above where you intend to weld causing burn through, create a loss of the gas shielding (created by the burning flux) which is essential to a sound weld deposit, and throw bingle berries all over the base metal as large globs of metal are ejected from the tip of the electrode.

There may be other issues too, but I would try to get that one resolved first.

You can try keeping the flux in light contact with the base metal, particularly the thicker piece.  That should help substantially.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 11-15-2010 04:00
Tom, low power machines are pretty tough to learn with, try just laying beads on plate 'till You get the hang of it, then practice various joint configurations. When You get to the point where You can lay down half decent beads on practice plates, then go ahead building Your projects.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 11-15-2010 15:08 Edited 11-15-2010 15:39
First, (EDIT) WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!! 

I'm going to agree with Blaster and Dave.  I think it was mainly your electrode manipulation, settings that you didn't mention exactly for your amps settings, and the need for practice.

Work at just a plate to run stringers on first and get them looking good.  Keep your electrode close with a short arc length.  Most new welders have a problem with this.  They tend to let the rod burn back and don't keep it pushed into the work tight enough.

From the pics, there was little true penetration to either the tube and especially the plate.  The plate was thicker and should have been where you concentrated your arc and let the weld pool flow up onto the tube steel.  Move slowly but not so slow it blows a hole in the tube.  You also had much slag which can be hard for newbies to distinguish from the weld especially while the arc is burning.  And 6013 tends to trap slag easier than some of the other rods. 

6013 should be good on AC or DC usage.  But, your application will present itself with options that you will begin to see one works better than the other for.  It depends upon the welding position, thickness of material, class of material, etc.

Start practicing and Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 11-15-2010 18:07
"Bingle berries."  Awesome, I'll have to remember that.

The above advice is excellent, as usual.  If you do a search for stick welding in google's video search, you'll find some decent video of proper (and many cases of improper) SMAW technique in action.  I would want to see your set up before giving further advice.  Those harbor freight machines are usually ok for joining thinner members, but 3/16" is what I would normally consider at the very top end of what that machine is likely capable of joining.  One problem with those small inverters is that the power source usually has to be pretty stable, or you won't get a stable arc to begin with.  I would want my ground to be attached right on the work, and make sure it's clean.  Another problem I see is you're right off trying to join a thinner member to a thicker member.  This requires a little more experience to keep sufficient heat on the thicker member to melt, while avoiding meltdowns on the thinner piece. 

Nice pictures!  Be sure sure to post some more as you progress, and good luck!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-15-2010 18:28
I call em'..... "Dingle Berries"...(when referring to the large spatter)
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 11-15-2010 18:39
Me too, just hit the wrong key!
Parent - By Skaggydog (**) Date 11-15-2010 20:13
I'm calling them "Bingle berries" from now on.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 11-16-2010 01:40
Another important point that I forgot to mention in the first post:

All the 110 volt machines are minimal on power, and will really perform poorly on a long or undersize extension cord. If You can, wire a 30 amp breaker to #10 wire right out to where You will use the welder, so you can plug in without an extension cord. Spend the extra for a hospital grade or industrial grade outlet, they make better connection.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 11-16-2010 15:43
The 3/32 is pushing a 80 amp machine if you are using a extension cord as has been mentioned. Use the smallest diameter rod. Using the 3/32 6013 you do not want to have any arc showing. I have welded with the 80 amp Chinese and have had good luck with 6011. You need to get the puddle formation and stepping down flat before you can do the filet with these. I have fairly decent welding skills, but lighting one of these little welding machines up and keeping it lit is tough. I would hate to have to learn SMAW on one.
You would be a heck of a welder though.
- - By clinkerforge (*) Date 11-27-2010 20:05
I am not so sure that I would call that a "brittle weld" looks like lack of fusion to me, I would try to practice with the 6011, just try to run some beads on flat plate first, get a nice bead laid down then run another one that laps over the first bead half way, so the two beads are tied in together, keep making more passes like this until you can make them flat on top, no Rocky mountains. Once you can do that then you should be ready to start making joint and join pieces together
Parent - - By jbndt (**) Date 11-27-2010 21:29
One of my old supervisors called them "Jingle Berries" ...
He must have had REALLY good hearing!!!   ;-)
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 12-06-2010 01:54
i thought they were DINGGLE BERRIES
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 12-06-2010 03:03
THOSE are around the South end of a North bound mule :-)
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Brittle SMAW welds

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