TIG bend test

Date 11-19-2010 05:39

Hello sjsevier, first off, as is customary on here, welcome. To your questions: if you can provide the code or section of the code that applies and the specifics of the test it will allow folks to give you better answers/information to address your questions. Best regards, Allan

By sjsevier (*)

Date 11-20-2010 16:47

Hey aevald thanks for the welcome, and Im glad to be a member. Im a beginner welder with a little over 2 years experience, so Im new to the codes and thier numbers, so I will explain it the best I can, here we go. 3/8" plate, 75 degree bevel, 3/32" gap with knife edge, TIG root and the rest of the way out with TIG. So after I put my cap on I ground it out and then cut my cupons and did a bend test, and the rest is history, so I was wondering if I sould protest this one or let it go. I know it got to be close to the specs for that test. Its also a pass fail situation, oh by the way Im in a pre-pipe welding class and these test determine whether I get into the advanced pipe class, so he failed that one and now Monday I have to do it all over again, or protest it. Thanks for any help. I love to weld more that anything and It soon will be my lifes career, and I will be a full member of the AWS.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-20-2010 20:17

Knowing the visual and destructive inspection evaluation criteria up front is pretty important.. There is nothing wrong with asking this up-front as well.. Much better than after something is rejected.

As an instructor I see lots of welds that are compliant but are still ugly.. When I can, I like to tell the student/welders that they are compliant but I would like them to do it again because I think they can do better. Maybe your situation is something similar.

Also I will from time to time go ahead and bend coupons that fail visual for a very small indication of lack of root fusion (looked out). There is alot to learn from that. Generally if there is a fusion related discontinuituy on a root that can be seen, the thing is a failure before it is ever bent. If that failing discontinuity doesn't open up beyond 1/8" during bending.. it's still a failure.

It's impossible to dispute your instructors findings without knowing exactly what your visual/destructive evaluation criteria are... So make that inquiry first.

If time allows... I would encourage you to try the test again and put out a weld that leaves no doubt in the inspectors mind...

But first... Nail down your vision and destructive evaluation criteria... And keep in mind that visual and destructive evaluation criteria are two completely different things..

By sjsevier (*)

Date 11-20-2010 21:55

Thank you very much for replying to my post Lawrence. Well I agree with you on the part about doing it over because I can do better, I think they are harder on me because they know I have a little skill and can do better. Heres the class situation, 27 students, 16 weeks to pass the course if you want to go to the advanced pipe class, which I do. Most of the students have never even seen a TIG rig before. I have used a TIG about 3 times for a total of about 10 beads and none walking the cup. First you do pad of beads all overlaping four beads in total, in all four positions, flat, horizontal, vert. overhead. Then T joint in four positions, then lap joint four positions, then open root four positions, and finally open root with backing plate four positions. Ok sounds like alot right, well theres more, the other part of the course is stick welding so you have to do all that stuff I just mentioned with a 6010 rod, sounds like alot right, well theres more, after the 6010 rod you have to do all the things mention before with a 7018 rod, well except the open root stuff that s 6010 root with 7018 on out, backing strip and no strip. Wow this is the first time I have seen all this on paper and it looks like alot. But maybe not to an experienced welder, but that I am not. I started the class on the 27 of Sept. and I am on open root in both TIG and stick, so I am doing pretty good. Some of the guys are still on pad of beads. I do understand why they make thier dicisions on pass or fail but this one was really close and I will take your advice and ask about the specs before I do it next time.

By aevald

Date 11-21-2010 04:30

Hello again sjsevier, after reading your response and some of the other posts and your responses to them, I have a few additional comments to add. I believe I read that you don't have a lot of experience with GTAW, but you have been doing other welding for around 2 years. It is highly possible that your instructors do indeed see a lot of potential in you and are trying to get you to work at it more to bring out all of your abilities and get you to a higher level than they might for others. I have a statement that I make to all of the students in our program: whether you take a couple of credits, complete a Certificate of Completion, or achieve an Applied Arts and Sciences degree, you have likely only scraped the tip of the iceburg. Additionally, for many of them and to some degree for you also, when you get out and work to land that first job the limited "real world" experience of yourself and most students requires you/them to shine in other areas, initially. Being able to walk in and knock out a really great looking test says a lot for your chances at getting a shot at going further into the hiring process and potentially getting hired. You have to have confidence, not cockyness, you have to have listening and retention skills, you need to be able to work well with others, you need to be able to interview well and answer and ask questions as well during an interview. I would imagine you have received much of this sort of information already, yet it never hurts to have a bit of reinforcement. I wish you great success in your quest for a career in welding and it's associated areas. Definitely hang-out on the forum here and ask and contribute information and topics when you can. The old cliche does apply: the only dumb questions are the ones that aren't asked! Good luck and best regards, Allan

By sjsevier (*)

Date 11-22-2010 00:47

Well I have to say Allen thats some of the best advice ive heard in a while, I have two really good instructors that point me in the same direction you are going with your advice. I guess that instructor that I said is hard on me does only have my best intrests in mind and I should not fuss about having to do it again. I love to weld more than anything and TIG is awsome, Im better at stick but I like the challenge of tig, not to mention the cleanliness. I guess I just got shook up about being so close to passing that test, but it was my mistake and I know, unlike some of my fellow students, that instructors are not out to get me but help me.

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 11-19-2010 12:56 Edited 11-20-2010 15:15

sjsevier,
If it's a ASME Sec. IX test you can have no open discontinuity in the weld or heat affected zone exceeding 1/8" measured in any direction on the convex surface of the specimen after bending, open discontinuities occurring on the corners shall not be considered unless there is definite evidence that result in lack of fussion or slag inclusion. QW-163 2007

If it's a AWS D1.1 1/8" discontinuity measured in any directions on the surface, the sum of any discontinuity greater than 1/32nd but less than 1/8" shall be no more than 3/8", 1/4" max corner crack, except if there is visible slag in the corner crack. Part B 4.8.3.3 2008

Improper fusion is a discontinuity but must be measured against the above requirements as they apply.

Hope that helps
Jim

By sjsevier (*)

Date 11-20-2010 16:34

Hey Jim thanks alot, that helps so much. To give you a little more background Im in a pre-pipe welding course at Florence Darlington Tech. in SC. The test was a 3/8" plate, TIG root and all the way out with TIG, walking the cup. My bevel was about 40 degrees, my gap was 3/32" with knife edge, I finished it up, ground it out and was ready for the bend, and when that happened one of my instructors, I have 6 and this guy is the toughest one, found a small inclusion, which I guess it was incomplete fusion and it was tiny like a 1/16" and its a pass-fail situation and he failed me, no measurement or anything, so I thought I would get a second opinion. So if that help any please contact me back, and give me your opinion. Thanks very much I love to weld and it is my career also.

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 11-23-2010 12:43

sjsevier,
Now that I know that you are in a welding school, that changes things a little. Your instructor has full discression to look you out at anytime for any reason ( As far as I am concerned) to help you improve. I to went through a welding school and at the time I went through, this school was considered #3 in the nation for training Nuclear welders. I heard many many times "that looks ok do it again, "better, now do it again, and again, and again. They were trying to get my skill level as high as they could. Settling for "that's good enough" was not an option. It's not about just making the test it's about being proficient with the process. I see to many guys come through our test booths that have been trained to make the test, but are not profcient in their craft. Listen to your instructors and take your lumps. You will be better for it.

Thanks
Jim

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 11-23-2010 13:27

My office.

By sjsevier (*)

Date 11-24-2010 03:18

Hey Jim I think your absolutely right. I want to be the best I can be at this and I think thats what my teachers want too. I went back to school Monday night and knocked out two excellent TIG coupons and bent them and had no inclusions. I think I was just a little frustrated when I was *****in about those other coupons, but I got my head on straight now, and like you say just keep my head down and take my lumps.

Hey Jim you said your school was #3 in the nation for Nuclear welders, well I was wondering what school you went to because my school says the same thing.

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 11-26-2010 13:24

sjsevier,
The school I'm speaking of was #3 when I attended back in the early 80's. It is Columbia Basin College in Pasco WA. It was a two year program. You were in the classroom 4 to 4.5 hours per day and the booth 4 to 5 hours per day.

Jim