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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / What a great day rig welding
- - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 12-23-2010 02:32 Edited 12-23-2010 02:35
Went out to finish up a small job today....welding in four 1 1/2" 304ss pieces of roundstock in a 42" concrete lined Y sewer pipe.  They wanted this for a guide for the cleanout pig.  They had already put in carbon bars by mistake and I cut them out and cleaned it up the previous afternoon.   Had all the pieces already cut and coped to fit on the peak of the y and to the side of the branch.  I was using 1/8 mckay 309L running off a trailblazer 250 that was having a bad running day...surging a bit and forget about idle.  I have burned a lot of 308 and a fair share of 309L back in the day.....I could not carry a puddle for crap today.  I spent more time with the grinder then the stinger.  I dunno what was going on.....the 1 1F (more or less) went ok....everything else was 5f of 6f? and overhead.  The root went in alright mostly...but everything thereafter from 6 to 8-9 o clock was dog knotting something fierce....then I would hit a spot and the rod would dig in like a gouging rod, just instant big pocket and I would get a fallout.  I played with the heat all day....I I remember right I use to run these rods in 1/8 anywhere from 95-120 amps no problem.  Another weird thing is when I was carrying the arc on the stainless bar side it got watery in a big hurry...very hard to keep from undercutting.   I sped up ...I weaved...I just forced it in all sucked.   Either I completely have forgotten how to weld this stuff or that machine is due for the shop.  I intend to burn some tomorrow with a known power source and see what I get.

Now the fun part...I was welding the last 6-12 half laying in the pipe on my side.  I smelled the familiar smell of burnt cotton...another hole in my blue jeans I thought....kept on welding another 15 secs or so then I felt the heat.  I yelled out I am on fire and proceeded for the exit...I am short but I am not a small guy...bars in my way this way pallet and plywood blocking my exit at my time I got turned around to dive out of the pipe I was BLAZING (maybe 5-6 secs) I dove out ...partner beating the flames out, I am throwing my hood off ripping at my leathers...he grabs my t shirt and rips whats left of it off of me.  I end up with a basketball sized burn 3 inches or so from my nipple going across my ribs to my back under my left arm.  My partner said he looked in the pipe and it looked like someone had set a gerbil on fire inside his cage LOL!!  Well I am going to lose quite a bit of skin...sloughing off as I type.  But for the most part I will be ok...MY SUPER wonderfull Doctor called me in a script for a bucket of silvadene and a coffee cup of painkillers after a quick phone call.  If I had been wearing a full jacket instead of a cape and bib I could have avoided this STUPID mistake.  We finished up the job and while I was driving the rig back to the shop I told my partner......You make sure you tell the boss I did this at 2:00pm (we rolled up at 5:30)  LOL!!!  

Another great day in the trenches I guess.   But you know...the fact I struggled with those rods bothers me way more then the burn.
Parent - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 12-23-2010 03:48
thats funny ****...the jerbil in the cage...i could picture this!!!
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 12-23-2010 04:08
Sorry to hear You got fried.

Silvadene is good stuff, I had a bunch of it from when My privates got radiation burned at the beginning of My cancer treatment. My mom used most of what was left thinking it was zink oxide. I don't begrudge Her whatever relief it gave Her, but I paid about $40 for the stuff, and zink oxide would have been a small fraction of that.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 12-23-2010 06:50
Hi Tommy!

Could you tell us what was the polarity you had your machine set to? Also, did you check if the electrodes you were using recommended a specific polarity?

Btw, glad to read that you're busy again!!! ;) All the best!!! :) :) ;)

Parent - - By Hughes Welding (*) Date 12-23-2010 08:27
Tommy, we do alot of welding with 309 rod.  Was it 309-15 or 309-16.  From my experance the 16 is for flat and horzontal and the 15 is all position.  I run the 3/32 at 76 amps.  So not sure about 1/8th.  Guessing around 95-100 amps.  Sorry to hear you got burnt.  Guess the worst is the next day.
Parent - - By NMWELDING (**) Date 12-23-2010 21:54
Not sure but I thought the 15 was DC only,while the 16 was AC or DC. I weld with stainless some,but not very often.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 12-24-2010 03:03 Edited 12-24-2010 03:26
ERIC you might have hit the nail on the head!  It was 16  I will have to look that up and see.  All I can tell you is it run like dog**&T out of position...I was really frustrated, but in the end I got it stuck in there.  Henry as far as polarity I welded DC reverse (or electrode positive), I am pretty sure that was correct.  How have you been doing btw?

EDIT  No luck the 16 is listed as ALL POSITION....either I suck or the machine is punked or a combination thereof.  I brought some home to run a few beads with the Hobart to see whats what.
Parent - By Hughes Welding (*) Date 12-24-2010 07:12
After reasearching the 309-x5 the x is the position.  1 is all position.  Sombody can correct me if I'm wrong.  But based on my experance with E309 for SMAW the 309-15 runs totaly different than the 309-16.  We had about eight weldors at our shop experimainting with different electrodes to determine what works better for us.  None of us was very successful with the 309-16 in the vertical position.  We was getting the simular results as you are getting.  We also run DC reverse polarity.

The texting facility we use likes the Lincoln Red Baron 309-16.  But I have had no luck with it.  I perfer the McKay 309-15 to the other brands I have tried. 
This is just my experience.  We are out of the Lincoln 309-16 or I could try it today.  I'm sure someone on here has more experience than me with the 309 and could offer different results.  Another variable we are using an HSLA steel.

Curious of the results when you try another machine.
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 12-25-2010 12:51
Nice to hear Tommy, getting back at it! I've been in that situation, think its just your run of the mill burn and will go away then keeps getting warmer, gasp and get p.o'd cause you have to stop the weld and look down.....Holy Cr_p!!!! Im on fire!!!!

Can't offer anything about the stainless, can weld it fair but can't give any advise.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 12-26-2010 02:50
Hi Tommy!

I'm doing okay today, but more important is how are you? From the description of the burn, it reads like you really got a nasty one there... :(

Anywho, Eric has made a good point regarding the type of electrode you use for vertical or other out of position welding as a 309-15 coating is preferrable for field use since the basic coating of 309L-15 gives excellent vertical welding characteristics. It is therefore the choice for field welding... Now that isn't always the case in every application because you didn't mention what you are welding the 304 (is it L or H?) to... In other words what type of steel is the concrete lined sewer pipe made of...
Also, if you're welding with 1/8th diameter electrodes, turn the current down a bit to about 70-85 amps and maybe just tad more if you're a real fast "fuser! ;)"ry

Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 12-27-2010 01:34 Edited 12-27-2010 01:41
Ahh  its just a flesh wound  LOL!!   It is bugging me a bit but I will tough thru it I think.  

Well I ran a few straight up with basically the same results...runs like poopy.   Inside a tight bevel I think it will weld alright but forget about caps...I cannot do it anyway.   I tried some horizontals and it was fine.   I reckon we got the wrong rod (I did not order it)....I will just save it for in position work.  Glad we only got a 10lb can.  Next time I will make sure to get the 309L-15.   Your right on the heat Henry, around 100 the flux is starting to glow on the last 3rd of rod  75-90 seems about right.
Parent - By ironsport (*) Date 12-28-2010 15:17
ull find the l-15 has less flux maing it weldor friendly for out of posistion welds  l-16 is a all posistion rod but more flux is heavier puddle
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / What a great day rig welding

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