stainlees steel type

Date 10-01-2002 17:00

Your best bet is to take to a testing lab and then you know for sure.

Not knowing what someone might do with it, limits what kind of information you might get here.

By TimGary (****)

Date 10-01-2002 17:42

I seem to remember that when I was in the Navy, I saw a chart that described how to tell the difference in metals by the different patterns of sparks made when grinding the metal.
Is anyone else familiar with this?
I sure would like to get my hands on one of those charts if anyone knows where to find one.
Tim

By dee

Date 10-02-2002 00:08

Tim,
I had an old oxy-acetylene textbook published by Linde which did have a section that included the spark-test method you are thinking of. It contained line drawings and some mediocre photographs to orient the reader on what the drawings were trying to depict. It was old when I purchased it new over 30 years ago. I am afraid my son misplaced it over three years ago, so if you do find any somewhere drop me a line; I would like to restore it to my library. I forgot the title; "Oxyacetylene", "[OA] Welding" or "[OA] Handbook" comes to mind. It was hardbound in red.

I believe the Army also had a similar chart. Try this link to Army Training Circular 9-273 or other areas within the same machinist.org domain.

http://www.machinist.org/army_welding/

Regards
d

By dee

Date 10-06-2002 16:18

Tim,
I did find my oxyacetylene handbook, originally copyrighted in 1943 mine cost $5.00 in 1960 and was published by Linde division of Union Carbide; they also distributed it. I dont think I want to sell or trade it, but you might find some availability on Amazon.com or elsewhere.

Indeed it demosntrates the spark test method, pretty much as I recalled, but it also demonstrated other shop expedients for analizing (jeeze, I'm not sure that was the word I intended- Freudian slip?) various metals, mostly steels.

Regards,
d

By Niekie3 (***)

Date 10-01-2002 19:51

The problem is that there are so many different corrosion resistant alloys that are both magnetic and non-magnetic that it is not as simple as just differentiating between a magnetic stainless and a magnetic carbon steel.

If you know for sure that it is either carbon steel or a particular type of stainless, then placing a drop of dilute acid on the surface would etch carbon steel while doing little to stainless. (e.g. 3% Nitric acid in alcohol)

Just for interest sake, there are more than three types of stainless steels. This further complicates your problem of material ID.

Personally I would get the material analysed by a lab.

Hope this helps

Regards
Niekie Jooste

By Chazyo2 Date 10-02-2002 05:21

Personally I would get the material analysed by a lab.
But if you are not working on space age equipt, then I would use the grind test first then the acid test, like the guys said here before. If it is stainless you will have real short sprigs of sparks and it will be dark red in color. With disimilar metals I use a 312 stainless rod.

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 10-02-2002 05:30

Carbon steel sparks appear as streamers that tend to end in little explosions as the particle burns in the air. There are lots of them. Stainless chemistry trys to control oxydation of the material. It works at high temperatures also thus the particles from the wheel just cool and dissapear. The spark show is dull red and unspectacular. Same thing makes stainless nearly impossible to burn with a torch.
Bill

By dee

Date 10-02-2002 17:36

Bill,
There was a little more detail given in the diagrams Tim mentioned which helped to actually calibrate the amount of pyrotechnical effect to the alloy, and hence the hardness, of the steel in question.

It was certainly wise to link the spark characteristic to the carbon content. I wish I thought of doing that. As usual you're to the point and your comment is of great benefit.

I would still like to find a source for the diagrams we mentioned, though.

Regards,
D

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 10-03-2002 03:44

I believe this is something I was shown, probably by my dad and years ago. I have also seen pictures but I don't remember where. If I can find them I'll post that but don't wait in an uncomfortable spot cause it might be a while. Why not just get some pieces of known metalurgy and try it out. It's kind of like seeing a photo of a waterfall or a fire, the photo is kind of lacking as a representative of the real thing.

Bill

By - Date 10-03-2002 15:15

thanks for all information from all.......

By Ken Dougherty (**)

Date 10-04-2002 03:58

Finally, a question I can help with. Here are a couple of sources for spark test charts. As a blacksmith I often end up with some chunk of metal that looks like mild steel but can be some strange stuff. A spark test sometimes helps in at least distinguishing between higher/lower carbon content but is not definative in determining alloy. Bill's suggestion about comparing the spark stream against a known metal's stream is very helpful. Try to maintain the same pressure against the wheel for each piece.

Modern Welding by Althouse et al. 1980 ed. pg 610, but I would guess the more recent editions would have it also. It is an expensive book now but libraries often have it.

Decorative and Sculptural Ironwork by Dona Z. Meilach, 1977, pg 65. This chart is actually courtesy of Hobart Brothers. The chart also includes other tests e.g. fracture, chisel, flame etc. Again, you may find this in libraries.

Often, blacksmithing books have these charts. If I can help further, let me know.

Hope this helps.
Ken

By TimGary (****)

Date 10-04-2002 11:45

Thanks for the info !

Tim

By MBSims

Date 10-05-2002 01:35

Tim,

I think I have a copy of those spark test charts in my old Navy HT 3&2 rate training manual. I'll see if I can get it scanned so it can be sent by e-mail.

Marty

By Ken Dougherty (**)

Date 10-05-2002 21:39

Also found another copy in the Hobart Pocket Welding guide. It actually shows stainless too. I'll see if I can make a clear/clean copy that will transmit thru e-mail.
Ken

By Niekie3 (***)

Date 10-06-2002 12:54

If you do manage to get a good copy, then please e-mail me a copy too. My e-mail address is:

editor@proknownet.com

Regards
Niekie Jooste

By Ken Dougherty (**)

Date 10-08-2002 06:01

I made a copy that was reasonable then scanned it in Photoshop, sharpened it and saved as jpeg. It opens fine in Microsoft Photo Editor and looks clear. Sure takes a long time to attach and send though. Anyone have a suggestion about a more efficient format to save it in that will attach faster?
Ken

By dee

Date 10-09-2002 17:07

Ken,
Many catalogs and large files are transmitted with the assistance of Adobe Acrobat. I would bet you have encountered them from time to time. Unfortunately Acrobat Distiller is not freeware; it's expensive enough to be inconvenient to use. Acrobat reader can be downloaded free at a multitude of sites including adobe's own. It works pretty well and I have used it to distribute various documents and artwork to members of my work group. Whatever you do never lose an Adobe serial number and/or forget to register the software. It's wise to follow up that registration was properly accomplished with these folks as well.

Regards,
d

By Ken Dougherty (**)

Date 10-10-2002 05:20

d,

Thanks for the tip. I have used Acrobat to read files but have never transmitted with it. I'll have to look into that.

Ken

By TimGary (****)

Date 10-10-2002 12:47

Ken,
Please send a copy to me at:
tgary@xtn.net

Thanks for your time,
Tim