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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / weldable primer
- - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-08-2011 21:26
weldable primer.   the job im currently on has some notations that cetain area's on steel beams and columns
be painted with weldable primer. my question is how can this be to code when aws says all area's to be welded
shall be clean free from paint lol. is this something .new that is allowed per AWSD1.1 2010 haven't got that
edition yet.  i don't know why but little things like this bug the crap out of me lol anybody ever hear of this
paint
Parent - By rcwelding (***) Date 01-08-2011 21:36
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 01-08-2011 23:08
Joe,
My latest opinion on the subject is...
It may be alluded to, or suggested that it is permissible to weld through these type primers...BUT!, do the specs and notes say that you "SHALL" weld through the primer? If so, then RFI the engineer. I've yet to run into such a clause in the Docs. Usually this is a "loose interpretation" by production to cut corners/costs/time. When all else fails, follow the governing code. After all, CODES are the legally binding document after the catastrophic failure. 
Another thing to consider is...If you are the welder, How do you know for a fact that weldable primer has been applied to the part. Guaranteed, in a court of law, the prosecution will have a laboratory sample analyzed.
As far as welding through weldable primer, If using 6010 or its kinfolk, not too bad. LoHy and others are not so forgiving.
I too am plagued by such quandaries...it is what keeps me up late at night...drinking and surfing this forum.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 01-08-2011 23:50
I second Superflux on this one Joe.

They can call it out all they want.  Prove it is acceptable per the Code being worked too.  Because I haven't seen any of the codes allowing it. 

But, pre-approved is different than welding to a PQR.  If it is something they have to develop a procedure to anyway then they can do it also using the called out "weldable primer".  If everything tests out OK then they are good to go.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-09-2011 00:26
this is being applied in the shop after the shop welding has been completed. its
the poor welder in the field thats gotta deal with this crap. I don't see what their
trying to accomplish. i know if im going to make a weld i want every advantage on myside
in reading the old post apparently this crap has been out for a while this is the first time
i've ever seen it. im no engineer or metallurgist but it seems to me any foreign substance
in the weld joint could cause somekind of contamination and create potential  weld defects.
why take the risk what is the plus side of this product?
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 01-09-2011 00:53
Weldable primer is very commonplace for prefabricated pipe and structural members. It is an excellent rust prohibiting coating and far easier than any other paint to remove for the poor welders in the field. Theory behind it is that the aluminum (often added to filler metals and fluxes) is a deoxidizing agent. However, the binding/coating agents of the paint itself is still undesirable to weld through if applied too heavily. Oh yeah, DO NOT attempt to GTAW through this stuff. Unless you enjoy prepping and changing out tungsten.
Worst I've had to remove was bearing grease that the painters applied when told to protect the prepped ends from paint. Even if you get it "all" off from the weld zone, the heat after welding begins will cause it to leach in and stink to high heaven.
Parent - By Wrench Tech (**) Date 01-09-2011 00:56
I don't believe in weldable paint.  I know it can be done but it's just cutting corners and isn't the way to do things.

A couple of years back I was working in a steel building and there was a rumour going around that you could weld without removing the paint.  I don't know who started it.  When the inspector came up to take a look at things I told him.  His response - "Bull $hit"!  - and I laughed and told him he might get an argument from some of the guys. 
He laughed and said, "You know, arguing with an inspector like me is a bit like wrestling with a pig in a mud hole - you soon get the idea that the pig is enjoying himself."

Besides, I don't like the paint fumes.  You get enough of them as it is.
Tom
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 01-09-2011 01:45
As a CWI, I know what the codes say about welding on anything but clean metal and understand why.
It is simply to ensure the best possible result, defect reduction, and protect against under bead cracking from hydrogen embrittlement.
As a former welder in the real world, I also know that not just primer, but many different types of coatings are welded through every day with good result.
If a company is going the extra mile to pay extra for "weldable primer", my hat is off too them for doing more than many.
There are a lot of oil rigs and ships out there that are covered with welds that were made according to the following "procedure":
First, get some 6010 or 6013 rods if you've got them.
Next chip a hole through however many coats of epoxy based paints and primers there are on the steel to be welded. Note: don't waste time chipping off all the paint in the weld area, just chip a hole down to bare metal so you can strike an arc.
Next, tack your pieces together at the chipped location.
Then, if you've got one handy, fire up your cutting torch and burn the paint along the joint. Hit the oxygen to blow away as much paint ash as you can, then wire brush.
Make a root pass with the 6010 or 13 in order to finish burning the paint.
Cap with 7018 or FCAW.

I'm not saying it's right, or that I would accept it if inspecting. I'm just saying that it happens all the time because it works.

Tim
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / weldable primer

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