Architect vs. Engineer prints

Date 01-09-2011 16:25

Been a "pipe hand" for the bulk of my career. Refineries, power plants, pressure vessels in shops and field construction.
BUT! Doing a commercial job right now. It is quite a learning curve with the unfamiliar lingo, parts, and just the way Architects draw as opposed to (mechanical) Engineers.
Any one know of any online basic courses or aids to help me learn to interpret these drawings. Like I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to be able to learn all the types of doo-hickies that go into structures. For instance scuppers, beams as opposed to girders, truss vs. joists????
I aints "toopid"...just uninformed. Some times it's hard not to ask the wrong question and compromise my status. Ya know how QC is supposed to be the all knowing guru on site.....
Thanks.

By 99205

Date 01-09-2011 22:29

Architects and Engineers are 2 different creatures and have different communication methods as you have seen. Scuppers help drain roof water, normally through a parapet wall, to a gutter system or to the open air. The beam and girder system normally works like this. Slabs rest on beams, beams rest on girders and girders rest on columns in some sort of pattern. Joists are normally horizontal with trusses rising off of them at some sort of angle. Now all of this is dependent upon the Architects definitions. I say this because I'm pretty sure most Architects are somewhat insane and are not completely in touch with reality.

By Superflux (****)

Date 01-09-2011 23:30

99205,
Thanks for the "Cliff Notes" dictionary. Yeah, I always said an Architect is just a "Thumb Buster/carpenter" with a degree...

By js55

Date 01-10-2011 13:54

"Ya know how QC is supposed to be the all knowing guru on site....."
Thats funny. And so true.
Its interesting how I often get strange looks from folks when they ask me a question I do not have an answer for.
"Aren't you supposed to be the expert?", they ask.
No. I respond. I am the guy who knows where to find the experts. Let me finish my coffee and I'll get back with you.

By joe pirie (***)

Date 01-10-2011 16:28

anybody ever seen a stiffner plate welded only on the inside of the flanges but nothing on the web??

By Duke

Date 01-11-2011 00:32

yes

By Superflux (****)

Date 01-10-2011 01:01

joe pirie,

In all fairness, I feel sorry for the Architects. I'm sure their freshman year in college, they had aspirations of designing some magnificent Verizanno Narrows Bridge or Metropolitan Art museum. You know, Frank Lloyd Wright kinda stuff. Then they graduate, go to to work for some giant firm, stuck in a cubicle, and wind up like on this job doing a single story commercial (expansion of an existing WongMart into a Superduper Center) building that has the artistic flair of a refrigerator box.

I've done some TPI in structural shops, and the in house detailers need some serious training in weld symbols and joint geometry. Some of the farm code symbols would be easier to interpret than what they come up with. Now doing this steel erection project I get to see just what you mean about the buck getting passed down and how with so many entities involved, the erection crew can really get confused on the true scope of their work.

By joe pirie (***)

Date 01-10-2011 02:14

we have several columns being fabricated that have several common connection details. The weld symbols are
all different . some plates get welded on both sides others only one when its pretty obvious the detailer screwed up.
I was instructed not to bother the engineer or detailer with rfi's and just make sure it's built to plan and any missing welds
will be handled in the field sure makes my job easier lol. I was recently on a project where the architect had noted omn the architectural dwgs
that all connection bolts on exposed steel had to be installed with the head side showing. some how this note never made it to the structurals or erection
dwgs lol. the ironworkers installed the bolts the only way their snap off gun woud fit getween two tube steel beams. when the architect came
out on the job i thought he was going to have a heart attack 90% of the bolts were turned the wrong way. now there fighting over who's gonna
pay, remove all bolts, buy new bolts install new bolts by turn of the nut method cause the gun won.t fit reinspect all the bolts. get the boom lifts back on the job
to access the bolts. on a conservative estimate id say theres at least 500 bolts . my guess is the erection companies gonna take it in the ole xzxxcxxzz
for not reviewing ALL PLANS AND SPECS Ouch thats goota hurt

By 803056

Date 01-10-2011 21:04

That will get the contractor's attention.

Al

By swsweld (****)

Date 01-10-2011 22:35

You're probably right on the steel erector eating the rework cost but how easy would it have been for that nugget of information on the A drawings to have made it to the S drawings?

Larger steel erector companies with PM's and in-house engineers should catch those notes and ensure that the field crews know before the work is done but smaller erection companies with an owner that is spread very thin in busy times would probably miss that one. The IW's just did what made sense to them because of the access of the snap off gun. Tough break for the erector.