hey,
anyone out there using mapp? i just traded in my acetylene tank for mapp because the mapp is more stable. i also learned that is goes 5 times further. the store manager said many plants dont allow acetylene on the property. i never knew acetylene was so unstable and the tank can blow up from getting dented. i just had to get new tips and my hose was already t grade. he said alot of guys lay the acetylene down and that is another no no. the only thing ya cant do is gas weld or at least very easily. is there any other things i dont know about mapp? lemme know
thanks,
rich
Rich; Mapp is ok if the stuff your gonna cut is clean and not too rusty. It takes longer to preheat the work than acetylene and is harder to light if you have a lot of air moving because it is so much lighter than air it just blows away. That's my biggest problem with it, because I work outside all the time, and most of the stuff I work on is pretty rusty.
Just a matter of getting used to the differences. Personally, I prefer acetylene, wen I wanna cut it, I wanna cut it now. I'm not sure but I don't know if it will last 5 times longer than acetylene, that might be stretchin it. Propane works the same way. One good thing, your sandwhiches taste better if you use MAPP or propane to heat em up than acetylene does. : ) Hope this answers some questions J Krout
propane is another good option. it's readily available at many gas stations too. and if you really want, you can get a welder w/ a propane engine so you only have to mess around w/ one fuel. but, like MAPP gas, it takes longer to preheat steel for cutting.
Your gonna miss the Acetelyne terribly!
Mapp, Propane, LP gas are no comparison when it comes to efficiency and quality of cut.
MAPP lasting 5 times longer is definetly not true as it takes twice as long to make the same the same cut, which means twice as much gas.
The safety precautions required for acetlyene are a MUST, but they are really very simple.
Anyway, thats my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...
Let us know how it turns out for you.
Tim
Dont meen to sidetrack the thred, but has anyone tried the gasoline setups that are out? They look to be very promising esspecially for field work, my company has been looking for allternatives to accytylene for about a year now, we have tried mapp and propane with out much positive feed back, mostly due to the speed of cutting.
MC:
There have been previous posts on this very subject in this Forum. Most of the welders in here have tried numerous fuel gases for cutting, brazing & welding. I myself have tried a multitude of gases back in the 80's when all of the welding equipment suppliers were marketing this stuff. At one shop we tried an "oxygen" making machine, MAPP, methane (natural) and propane, but we eventually went full circle back to the acetylene.
About 4 years ago I met a very sharp guy from a company called High Purity Gas (HPG). I explained to him that we have used all of the various gases and were not interested. I changed my mind in about 5 minutes after watching his demo and trying some of the cuts he made.
HPG cuts remarkably faster than acetylene. The cut was substantially cleaner, cut approximately twice as fast, was not as sensitive to changes in work/travel angles, the cut could be made with the tip approximately 6 " (or more) from the work and the dross and slag (if any) would drop right off, or took just a tap to remove. The cut required no grinding and was weld ready.
I was sold! The only draw back is the gas cannot be used to weld (we had numerous arc welding machines), but OFW was not big on productivity, so who cares? I have demonstrated this gas to a number of my clients and they have made the switch. These are high production steel fabricators who are very aware of what works, and what does not.
The HPG gas is different than MAPP (Methyl-Acetylene Propadiene-Propane). It is not as sensitive to shock, high working pressures and requires less fuel as acetylene for the same job. I would say it is comparable to propane for preheating heavy sections compared to acetylene which requires more fuel and takes substantially longer. It does have a higher price tag, but one cylinder of HPG is supposed to be equivelant to 5 acetylene. The special tips are required as well.
Instead of me doing marketing for HPG, you can call Mr. Dave Davis @ HPG: (800) 847-5664. If he is in your area, he gives a great hands-on demo, encourges attendees to participate and can show you some amazing things with this gas.
This sounds very interesting. What exactly is this HPG? If it is safer than acetylene and burns hotter, then this must be something!
Just a comment on the speed of cutting: Once the actual cutt is initiated, it is maintained by an exothermic reaction between the O2 and the steel, and does not rely on the fuel gas for heat. As such, the different fuel gasses are only a factor during the heating-up stage. Once cutting starts, there should be no difference in speed between the different gasses.
I can believe that other gasses can go much further per cylinder than acetylene. This is because acetylene on its own is very unstable and is actually dissolved within acetone, which in turn is contained within a porous substance that is inside the cylinder. Other gasses, especially those that can be liquified, will have much more gas contained within the cylinder and will therefore go much further.
Regarding the issue of transporting acetylene cylinders horizontally: This is done the whole time without problems. What is very important is that the cylinders are USED in the vertical position. Following transport, the cyliners should be allowed to stand a short while to settle. Then they can be used safely again.
I too have heard a lot about the safety concerns with acetylene, but believe that it is not that difficult to treat correctly. The fact that someone are worried, is already a 90% solution to the problem. The problems arise with those people that are "cowboys" and don't care.
Regards
Niekie Jooste
Niekie,
My brain must be needing an oil change or something. I presumed this HPG was a Hydrogen or blend of some sort, but never thought to actually ASK. Thank you.
I think I recall some American company marketing a H2 generation system for this kind of fuel-gas purpose over the internet. I was under the impression it instigated a release of H2 from water in aome simple economical manner. Bear in mind that oil-change thing I have going on over here though... my impression is subject to correction.
Because I do use the acetylene flame for more than cutting and heating it is necessary for me to control the chemistry of it. The characteristic cone feathers reflected by that chemistry make it superior for me; the flame is versitile and easy to "read". Heat is not the only issue.
Larger consumers of fuel gasses may have grounds for different opinions. Gas costs are a negligible part of what my customers pay for my product, but a cleaner cut translates into time and labor; I am also interested as you in learning more, although I doubt the gas can clear the hurdle between it and cost-effective practicality for my shop, my mind is open.
Excellent point about the "cowboys"; very true. I describe it in terms of driving an automobile.
Regards,
d
In the U S DOT requires fuel gas cyl. to be hauled in the vertical position, Ref OSHA and Z49.1. so be careful.
Magodly: I can verify that as true I was stopped by the PA State police and warned about it, even though the cylinders were secure and wouldn't roll. Another tidbit, I see a lot of of rigs goin down the road with the regulaters hooked up to the bottles, not only is it illegal, but it scares the beejesus out of me, I stay a long way back. J Krout
Just an update on HPG. This gas is Propylene. I also know the cylinders weigh about half as much as an acetylene cylinder of the same size. I think this is due to the lack of porous filler material present in the acetylene bottles.
I know one of my clients purchased the "high speed" tips for mechanized cutting (torch hooked up to a Buggo) and they are very satisfied with the results. Tips can be aquired for most cutting equipment brands (Victor, Purox, Smith, Harris, etc.) We purchased this gas through Airco.
There are lot's of gas and gas combinations out there for shielding and cutting. This one works well. Dave welcomes any questions or comments. He makes it very easy to understand and implement. The demo is a "must see".
You can't argue with the facts.
I am a hard sell.
This one works.
hey,
thanks for all the comments! i have a miller spectrum 2050 to do most of the cutting so i dont to plan on using the mapp a whole lot. i leave my regulators on the bottles. the o2 has a griftan saftey cap and the mapp has a built in handle ringy thingy. i was told these are safe and legal to leave regulators in. as far as heat the mapp is about 500deg less than ac and above propane. i have cut more with propane than acetylene so i dont know if i will miss it. i really appreciate all the comments cause if i knew it all i wouldnt be here. im 38 and been messing with welding and what not for 20 years and i know i wont live long enuff to even put a dent in all the welding theory and facts out there. anyway thanks!
rich
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