Need some help ASME IX

Date 02-10-2011 14:57

You are referring to sec IX which is for Welding and Brazing Qualifications.
You should ask your engineer or check your design specification to find out the construction code to follow.
When you are doing pressure vessel ; ASME code: refers to the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code including its addenda and code cases.

By Kix

Date 02-10-2011 16:40

So what are your construction codes? Are they like ASME SEC I , II, III, IV, VI, VIII, X and so on? I always see ASME B31.1 or something being referenced, is that another construction code? This unit has a pressure vessel on it and piping spools that go into and out of the vessel. So would the pressure vessel be inspected to SEC VIII and the piping be inspected to something like B31.1? Thanks for your help man!

Kix

By Joey

Date 02-11-2011 06:31

I have no idea on what construction code is applicable to your job now. Perhaps it is B31.1 as you always see, can you check your drawings? maybe you can find a clue there :)

By Joey

Date 02-14-2011 14:29

Kix

You can find a very good explanation of the “Construction Standards” in API 572 page 4. I can’t scan it because of copyright. You won’t feel bored :) :) of reading it, serious!! At least, you can argue that it came from written guidelines recognized worldwide.

To me, what you’re reading in the forum are just preliminary information, some of them were merely opinions. They are useful but don’t totally rely and easily believe unless you have read them in codes, std, RP or those reputable welding handbooks.

You must have the passion of reading code books, RP, stds and to get familiar on how to use them. You need not to memorize the details, the most important is you understand & know where to find the information you need.

API RECOMMENDED PRACTICE 572
SECOND EDITION, FEBRUARY 2001
Inspection of Pressure Vessels
(Towers, Drums, Reactors, Heat Exchangers, and Condensers)

Regards
~Joey~
Smokey Mountain

By OBEWAN

Date 02-10-2011 16:45

ASME has inspection acceptance limits. I think they are in section V or VIII. I know they are called out for DPI, RT, MT, and UT. Perhaps you could use the PT limits for visual since PT is a visual test. Do you have an electronic copy of ASME? Try a keyword search in V and VIII, or look for acceptance criteria in the index.

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 02-11-2011 01:00 Edited 02-11-2011 06:14

Kix,
ASME IX is for qualification of your welding procedures and welders.
The acceptance criteria for a fabricated item will be in the applicable fabrication code / standard.
The three most common in ASME are ASME VIII (Pressure Vessels) B31.1 (Power Piping) and B31.3 (Process Piping).
The various codes have a scope of jurisdiction explaining where that code is applicable.
For example - a pressure vessel may have piping attached, the first flanged joint or first groove weld is the limit for ASME VIII, the piping then falls under B31.1 or B31.3.
This is an excerpt from ASME VIII detailing the scope of ASME VIII when external piping is attached to the vessel

U-1(e) In relation to the geometry of pressure containing
parts, the scope of this Division shall include
the following:
U-1(e)(1) where external piping; other pressure
vessels including heat exchangers; or mechanical devices,
such as pumps, mixers, or compressors, are to
be connected to the vessel:
(a) the welding end connection for the first
circumferential joint for welded connections [see UW-
13(g)];
(b) the first threaded joint for screwed connections;
(c) the face of the first flange for bolted, flanged
connections;
(d) the first sealing surface for proprietary connections
or fittings;

Regards,
Shane

By OBEWAN

Date 02-11-2011 05:11

There might be some words in ASME that say to use the applicable acceptance limits for a build also for a operator performance qualification -but I am not sure about that.

By 803056

Date 02-11-2011 12:36 Edited 02-11-2011 12:39

Most of the responses are pushing you toward the proper source of the information you are looking for, but fall slightly short of the mark.

ASME B&PV Code is composed of about 11 Sections, each dealing with some particular aspect of pressure vessel construction. There are also several pressure piping code sections, each dealing with a particular piping service.

You can go to the ASME web site and to their book store to get a brief description of each code section, none of which are stand alone documents. You need to use several code sections to construct a pressure vessel or piping system. None of the code sections are "design manuals" meaning you cannot design and build a vessel using the ASME codes alone. Keep in mind that ASME delineates the bare bones requirements needed to ensure a safe vessel is constructed or a safe piping system is installed. Meeting ASME requirements alone may not satisfy customer expectations.

A brief rundown of the B&PV code sections that may be applicable to your situation includes:
Section II - Part A - Ferrous Metals, Part B - Nonferrous Metals, Part C - Welding Consumables, Part D - Materials Properties
Section V - NDT: qualifications of the inspectors and procedures, specific techniques, but no acceptance criteria.
Section VIII - Unfired Pressure Vessels, Division 1 and Division 2, includes materials of construction, design, fabrication, inspection (w/ criteria) and testing requirements.
Section IX - Welder, Brazer, and Procedure Qualification - acceptance criteria for welder, brazer, and procedure qualification only, nothing to do with acceptance criteria for actual product
Section B31.3 - Process Piping, Several service classes to address requirements of specific applications such as nonflammable nontoxic fluids, flammable fluids, toxic fluids, high pressure piping, etc. each with specific design and construction requirements as well as specific acceptance criteria.

Keep in mind that the requirements of Section IX are subject to modification by the specific construction code (Section 1, Section III, Section VIII, and each piping code). Meeting the requirements of Section IX alone may not meet the requirements of the construction code. For instance, B31.3 for High Pressure Piping does not accept the use of backing rings (unless removed), welder must be qualified by mechanical testing only, notch toughness is a requirement for each material specification (not by P number), etc.

You need to have the owner or the engineer specify what ASME code sections apply to your work. That is not something the inspector should be determining.

Best regards - Al

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 02-11-2011 14:54

Greetings Al,
Deeply offended.!!! LOL !!

"Most of the responses are pushing you toward the proper source of the information you are looking for, but fall slightly short of the mark."

I gave the best response I could based on the information given (which was basically nothing)
Have a great weekend,
Regards,
Shane

By 803056

Date 02-11-2011 15:37

Your right as usual Shane.

You can only use the SWAG method when little information is offered. I could only expand upon what you offered.

Best regards - Al

By Joey

Date 02-11-2011 17:16

Al

why must say a too complex impromptu when you can give a sharp answer which is direct to the point "You need to have the owner or the engineer specify what ASME code sections apply to your work. That is not something the inspector should be determining".

did I never say "You should ask your engineer or check your design specification to find out the construction code to follow.
When you are doing pressure vessel ; ASME code: refers to the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code including its addenda and code cases."

Joey :)

By 803056

Date 02-11-2011 17:37

Sometimes I simply get bored.

Al ;)

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 02-11-2011 22:23

As far as this thread is concerned, Al was the first one to suggest going to the EOR for clarification since indeed - it is not the inspector's job to decide something like this...

Sorry Al & Joey, I just couldn't help myself from commenting... I guess you could say that I was also becoming rather bored. ;) Besides, I happen to like Al's own take on various conditions & situations which require clarification of some level or another as well as his concern for the novice who may not be either aware or know how these things work by going out of his way to format his explanations in a manner which is easy for everyone to understand his message...

If someone else could do a better job of it, then why haven't they? ;) I say this with no disrespect towards anyone in the thread, and only add my observation of why Al is such an invaluable person to help in understanding these and other types of complex queries regarding the various welding & construction codes related to welding and fabrication which can sometimes confuse even seasoned veterans who use them on a consistent basis. IMHO Al is an excellent educator! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 02-11-2011 22:40

AMEN. There are a couple others here, including Henry. When they take the time to give a detailed answer or comment I read it even if it doesn't apply to what I am doing. I always learn something and greatly appreciate their detailed answers.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By joe pirie (***)

Date 02-11-2011 23:36

when i grow up i want to be as smart as Al & Henry I agree with
Brent their answers are nearly always spot on even if you don't
like them reading their posts is like going to school regards Joe

By 803056

Date 02-12-2011 18:42 Edited 02-13-2011 13:05

"even if you don't like them reading their posts is like going to school"

Joe, let me take the liberty of adding a comma and a period, "Even if you don't like them, reading their posts is like going to school."

Gee, Joe, I'm not sure if that was a compliment or not, but I accept all comments as constructive and informative.

Everyone adds a little something to the Forum. That's why we come back to read it again and again. It is educational, informative, and entertaining. It definitely isn't the place to visit if you have a thin skin and if you do, it will thicken with time if you insist on coming back time after time.

My aunt used to say, "The reason God gives us children is to keep us humble. If someone ever tells you they saw your child doing this or that, never say 'My child would never do that.' Trust me; they are more than capable of doing this or that!"

One purpose of my daily visit to the Forum is to keep me humble.

There are too many great contributors to single any one or two people. Never a day passes where I do not read something new or something I have not considered before. If you can read all the posts without learning something new, you are not reading them carefully enough.

Best regards - Al

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 02-12-2011 20:34

"Spellcheck" outed!

By 803056

Date 02-13-2011 13:06

Got me!

Al

By joe pirie (***)

Date 02-12-2011 20:40

Al what i meant with my bad grammar was the way you corrected me. that even though you might not
give the answers i want to hear to fit my agenda lol .you and henry always take the time to break down
some of these codes to a manner in which most of us can comprehend in a very professional manner.
I was paying you guys a compliment sorry if it didn't come off that way. I agree there are numerous
posters on this forum with vast amounts of knowlewdge and reading these posts is better than
any school or seminar i have attended. No matter what the question regarding codes, stick , tig, heat treating,
exotic metals , reach arounds , sweater puppies, cactuses penis someone will have a constructive and informitive answer
After reading some of these posts and answers I realize how much more i have to learn so im for one am going to keep on reading
hell where else can you get welding professors, AWS authors ,Welders, Inspectors,engineers to help you

Thank you all Joe

By Kix

Date 02-12-2011 05:07

I looked into the drawing package a bit deeper and found that the pressure vessel is built in accordance to VIII, but that's all it said. I have all the ASME publications at my disposal so I will start digging in VIII. Going to have to do some more digging for the piping. As for Sec IX, where exactly is the VT acceptance criteria for procedure and performance qualification. What I could find in there was very vague for VT. It's almost like they rely more on the acceptance criteria from the results of NDT and destructive testing to pass a coupon.

Thanks AL and everyone once again for clearing things up a bit for me!

Kix

By MBSims

Date 02-12-2011 13:25

Be cautious on the need for stamping the vessel. You might start by reading the section on data reports and stamping. I know some companies invoke ASME VIII on tanks that really don't require any stamping, but you want to be sure it does not require stamping. You will not be able to build a ASME VIII vessel without being audited by ASME and issued the proper certificate of authorization and code symbol stamp. If your state boiler and pressure vessel law applies to the type and size of vessel you are building, then you will be in violation of state law if you build it and it is placed in service. If in doubt, consult with your state Chief Boiler Inspector or Chief Safety Engineer and they will let you know if you need to stamp the vessel. If you need to find out who that person is, you can start here:

http://www.nationalboard.org/ViewMembers.aspx?cd=1

By Kix

Date 02-12-2011 22:35

Thanks for the heads up. The pressure vessel that is on this unit is not a stamped vessel. Let me ask you this though, is the VT inspection criteria the same for a stamped vessel as it is for a non stamped vessel?

Thanks!

By MBSims

Date 02-12-2011 23:32

The inspection criteria are the same. However, if the vessel required stamping, then the services of an Authorized Inspection Agency would also be needed to perform 3rd party inspections, witness fabrication and testing, review documentation and sign the data reports.