Explain Wisconsin

Date 02-24-2011 17:43

What I understand is the Wisc governor wants to end collective bargaining to get the public employees to pay about 5% for their pension and health benefits up from less than 2%. And have the ability to fire the dead wood.
Union NonUnion what the protests are really going to show is if democracy rules - or mob rules. I am hoping democracy rules.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 02-24-2011 17:54

Ok, so Union folks pay less than 2% towards pension and benefits and going to raise it. I follow ya.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 02-24-2011 18:29

Being a Wisconsin resident Tech College educator, and a dues-payer I have a dog in this fight.

I loath what my union (National where 85% of my dues go) does with those dollars.

I do however support collective bargaining, which is under attack.

Part of this is due to the various Unions unwillingness to compromise over the last 4 years during an economic dip.. Part is due to a new Governer who is using tactics that were not part of his campaign plank. He said he would make cuts, and make them fast... Ok no problem. I voted for the guy because he is pro-Life, which is a much more important issue than my salary... That does not mean I agree with his current tactic.

Medical, dental, vision, vacation, work rules, contact hours, sick leave, etc. All of these things will be totally under control of the state, giving them the ability to change these or remove them altogether.

Many other states are following suit... This is a plan that has been in the works for some time.

I don't care how much others put in to there health care and pension... When I accepted my position (in my view) the benefits that were offered were part of my compensation just like salary. I don't see pension or medical as a right. I see it as compensation for my value as an employee.

The media likes to compare my peers with private industry.. Saying industry has failed, taken cuts and can't compete, so they need to take cuts. Ok lets compare... My peers are excelling by any standard of measurement, whether it is test scores or graduates securing employment in a very depressed region of the country... We have THOUSANDS of university grads in our Tech college system right now because what we teach gets jobs. Private industry professionals that are as succsessful as my peers are not looking at pay cuts.

Nonetheless.. The state is spending more than it takes in and cuts must be made... So make the cuts.. The budget has been balenced for 38 out of the last 40 years.. Take temporary measures until the budget is back under control and then begin to restore what has been cut. But removing collective bargaining does not seem to me to be necessary to do that... This is an example of what is to become a nationwide strategy...

Those who are not affected now... May very well be, and sooner than they think.

Yes we can leave if we don't like it.... I've sure done that before. But I would prefer not to, at least not because of what is currently being foised on us.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 02-24-2011 19:22

Thanks Lawrence, been reading about collective bargaining, right to work and stuff on wiki. Good to hear from somebody so close to the trenches!!

Shawn

By aevald

Date 02-24-2011 20:05

Hello Lawrence, I can certainly understand exactly where you are coming from. In my area it is a similar type of situation, when folks leave our programs, with or without degrees/certificates, they generally go to work and earn living wages and become contributors to strengthening and supporting our national as well as state and local economies. We too see a considerable number of "degreed" individuals whose degrees won't earn them a living, thus they come to us and retrain in order to provide for themselves and their families. Even in these trying economic times, we have had very good success in seeing our graduates/students go out and find good paying jobs. Service industries are definitely necessary, however, production and manufacturing are certainly what will strengthen our country and economy as a whole.
You mentioned collective bargaining and how they are working to take that away, we have noted that sort of move in our state as well. I can tell anyone out there that the wages offered to a welding educator are laughable without the other perks such as retirement, medical, dental, and vision care. If money was my goal I wouldn't be a community college welding instructor I would head back out into industry. As you mentioned though Lawrence, I too prefer not to be making any changes any time soon as the rewards of a teaching career are worth a lot. When my teaching partner joined me almost 5 years ago he left industry to take approximately a 20K cut in pay. Why?, likely because he too saw the value of sharing his experiences and knowledge with others and also having the benefits of a somewhat flexible schedule(providing time for family), a decent retirement plan and medical benefits. Currently our program is serving almost twice as many students as we would normally see and we are being told to make it happen with a smaller budget. If it weren't for excess enrollment dollars and some other creative resources we would be in worse shape than we are.
The union that I am a member of is part of the K-12 system, for some things that is a good thing, generally for community/vocational/technical colleges it usually means a true lack of representation since there are only 34 colleges in the mix and far more K-12 facilities. Majority generally rules. Best regards, Allan

By uphill

Date 02-25-2011 19:40

Lawrence,
I am also a union menber (private employer) and have been for close to 30 years. My retirement is paid in hourly at a rate controlled by a contract. I dont have any out of pocket contributions nor can I if it would benifit me. Herein lies the problem . The money paid in used to raise my monthly retirement by $300 a month but because of rising healthcare costs they have redirected enough of it to lower my monthly increases per year of service to aprox $100. My mecical deductable has gone up and my total coverage has gone down. While we are not fighting the same battle the ground rules are vastly different. I get No sick days, paid holidays (unless I work), no seniority and no paid sabaticals like some of the teachers do. My concerns rise from the anti union sentimate directed at Government Employees. Hell most people dont like thier unions as its almost impossable to see what good the dues are doing.

We have contract negotations every three years and May will bring a tough one. While I hate to see anyone have to pay more for less I dont feel as bad about contributions keeping up with inflation. Are you paying more into your pension to get less return? Have your contribution rates ever gone up? Has your pension decreased? I have a freind who is a carpenter got a notice two months before his early retirement that cut his monthly check in half. He only has to work 5 more years to get it back to last years levels.

I know what you mean about just wanting what you agreed to when you hired on. I feel the same way about my pension money drifting off to help support my fellow brothers and sisters in the ranks. But like you said "make the cuts"

This is still America land of too many lawers and legal loopholes. California is trying to cancel out all state funded pensions.

Best of luck with your fight.

By Blaster (***)

Date 02-24-2011 20:13

I have been a union officer as well as a contract negotiator for our school's local faculty union. We can negotiate all we want with the college's administration, however the resources are fixed in an amount dictated by the state. In other words the money the state provides the college is not going to change regardless of what our faculty do. Much of the money which is allocated to the school is negotiable in terms of pay v. benefits v. work condtions, but just to the point that there are resources already availble. The school simply has no means by which to increase the size of the pot provided by the state. In any case this seems to work well as we can in large part allocate the FIXED resources in the best interest of the group. I think it would be a serious mistake to do away with this type of limited bargaining ability.

I am still a union member and have belonged to 3 other unions previously. So I understand the value of collective bargaining, particularly for skilled but temporary work such as is found in many of the construction trades. However I also do understand the logic in not wanting politicians and government employess with minimal personal economic interest (unlike the case within the private sector) sitting opposite a negotiation table from those who are asking for more resources when the taxpayer is the one on the hook to pay the resulting bill.

It will be interesting to see how things pan out in Wisconsin. One thing is for sure, unions who protect their culls rather than policing their own, or who incorrectly estimate their own worth above what is actually fair market value will become devalued or run their organizations into the ground. "Eight for 8 and carry your own weight" are words to survive by.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 02-25-2011 00:47

Shawn as far as the right to work state stuff......that allows a company or anyone with a union shop to get workers to come in and keep the shop going during strikes etc. If I go apply at a union shop I may go work there under my own personal negotiated deal, joining the union in that place is my option. Lots of companies put something in their employment agreements that you can only work for 90 days or some such then you must join the union or go EXCEPT under times of strike etc..... The law reduces the leverage considerably that a union can wield in a state....it does not drive them out but kinda protects businesses, job seekers+ unemployed/striking union members, and allows the unions to still operate.

Far as the rest of it all it seems it is just another case of the lawyers/politicians unable to manage thier piggy banks. It is all coming to a head for everyone. THe whole country needs to wake up as a whole, lifestyle changes or suffer....we have waited way too long to make the changes we needed to make, now we must pay the piper.

BTW I got nothing against union or private....I have problems with people in charge of life and death issues for millions of people doing such a crap job and passing the problem onto others.

By mcostello (**)

Date 02-25-2011 04:14

All this being said about cutting workers benefits and such............ when do we get to cut the politicians wages and benefits?

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 02-25-2011 12:31

I think you hit the nail on the head Costello!! Never hear about them cutting their lifetime packages after they serve for a two year term. I won't even begin to get into how I feel about that.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies, it's good to hear different views.

Tommy, I have noticed on some government app's that I've done they do ask if I'm a union shop or open or both. With this I'm starting to see what they are getting at with those questions. I, like you don't have a problem with the Union folks, if I was in I'd be wanting to get all that I could to and if some politician is willing to sign off on it then oh well.

Allen, I understand what your saying about the teacher pay! I've been offered a job several times and it's usually, "the pay is not so great but you get great benefits and your kids can go to any course offered in the school for next to nothing". Then time off with breaks between trimesters, holidays and so on.

I guess the one thing that was brought up was an increase in the cost of benefits from 2% to 5%. I have to admit that yes, it sucks but as an employee years ago it seemed every year around the spring they would have a meeting to inform us that our insurance was going up. There was not a whole lot we could do about it, greedy az insurance companies coming up with some new b.s excuse to raise prices again. But, as I said, really could not do a darn thing about it, like taxes just something that had to be done and you overcome, b__ch about it and move on. I don't know if that experience is the same as what is being proposed up there in Wisconsin though.

Thanks again, seems like we are having a civil conversation though!! LoL!

Shawn

By RonG

Date 02-25-2011 17:09

I am curious as to how far they want to go with the trimming of benifits. Will these new rules apply to the elected officials and more inportant do they apply to the governing body thats makeing the new rules?

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 02-25-2011 20:57

I think the answer to that question Ron would be a big fat, no. Hehehehe! Seems the politicians are the only ones hard times never seem to affect, unless they get voted out!

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 02-26-2011 17:19

is it not clear whats going on?