Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Crane reach
- - By dnelson2031 (*) Date 02-25-2011 17:11 Edited 02-25-2011 17:14
Years ago I was working on the roof of a tall building with a well-experienced co-worker.  Despite the fact that we had a LONG boom on the crane, we couldn't reach far enough onto the roof to propery place our load (see illustration).  "What should we do?" I asked.  He responded: "Move the crane."

Now, moving the crane was a big deal--land the load, pull the outriggers and pads, etc.  I didn't want to move it twice!  So I asked:"Which way should I move it--closer to the building or farther away?"  I don't remember his response.  He was probably muttering something under his breath like (darn kids can't do anything--I've got to do it myself...).

Although I've never come across any outside guidance on this question, even in excellent reference books like IPT's crane and rigging manual, I have stumbled on to a method for optimizing a crane's reach in this type of situation.  But first, let me ask any potential readers: which way would you move the crane and why?

In the idealized illustration, pixels could stand for feet: with a boom of 350', a pivot point-to-building distance of 140', and a vertical rise of 200', the crane reaches 60' onto the roof.  (No attempt to factor in the safe distance between the boom and the edge of the roof, the fact that the boom has depth, the existence or nonexistence of a jib, or other realistic but complicating factors.)

The goal is to reach farther on to the roof.  (Headroom is not an issue--just horizontal reach.)  What do you think?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-25-2011 18:14 Edited 02-25-2011 18:23
It may depend on the pick.....too much weight and it won't matter if you move out farther to clear the edge of the roof, you won't be able to pick the load. As you lay the boom further over, the same load feels heavier to the crane, than if you were up close and boomed nearly straight up.

EDIT: Actually you may have the crane in the idea place....it won't matter if you move further out if the boom is already extended as far as it can go at 350(just did a little math and you don'r gain anything by moving the crane)....you just need to leave the perimeter framing for last and set the inside steel first...LOL
Parent - - By dnelson2031 (*) Date 02-27-2011 15:05
John,

You're right about the placement of the crane in this case--it's just about optimal right where it is.  Which makes the dilemma of deciding which way to move the crane even more painful!  Better, I think, to put the crane in the optimal location in the first place.  Then, if it doesn't reach, it just doesn't reach.  Relocating the crane won't help!  Most of the crane operators (and screaming superintendants) that I've known with were pretty darned good at picking a location for the crane based on their personal experience and intuition--no measurements.  But this approach doesn't assure optimal placement.

The screenshot below shows some calculations that confirm your assertion: the crane placement is just about, but not quite, optimal.  However, the potential gains in this case are very small--only about 0.1' of reach could be gained by locating the crane about 5' closer to the building.

The more important point, I think, is that the optimal location can be easily calculated ahead of time using the given formula.  This is the result that I had to discover for myself.  I think this is a handy little factoid that anyone who ever needs to place a crane could benefit from.  There may be other applications, as well. 

Despite this, I've probably beat this dead horse about as much about as much as anyone can stand.  So, if anyone would like details concerning the derivation of this equation, let me know & I will share them privately.
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 02-27-2011 20:44
That's awesome Dan.  I would like you to show me how you came up with that equation.  However in order to save both of us a lot typing, I will ask you during lounge time at our next meeting.

Rod
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 02-25-2011 20:23 Edited 02-25-2011 20:42
Hi Dan

Just off the top of my head with no math at all it looks to me like max reach on to the roof would be at 45 degrees, so I would move the crane away from the building to a distance equal to the height of the building.

I will now try and figure out the reason for my hunch.

Rod

Edit:  Damn well I can see that my hunch was wrong.  I will have to try figuring this out, but I am finding that impossible right now with the constant drop-ins in the office during lunch.  Looks like a fun problem, I will have to try it tonight.
Parent - By dnelson2031 (*) Date 02-26-2011 00:20
Hey Rod.

Did you ever think of moving your program to a 4-day week?  Lots of folks do it.  Our administration had a big push a while back to move to the 4-day week.  Their motivations included transportation, child care, etc.  Although the faculty, as a whole, freaked out and shot the idea down, I jumped on board.  Students love it!  And, although I still work a 5-day week, I am able to get lots of paperwork, meetings, and industry visits done on Fridays.  Sometimes, I am even able to work from home!

I can't say that the 4-day week is best for student learning.  However, moving to 4 days did give me an additional opportunity to "ratchet up" my demands for regular attendance.  When students assert a need to take a day for "appointments," I now tell them to make their appointments on Friday!

As an amusing aside, I had a whole bunch of Russian immigrant students a while back (10 or 15 years ago).  On the whole, they were excellent students.  Most came from the ranks of skilled labor in the old country--machinists, electricians, welder/fabricators, etc.  But language was a HUGE issue.  Most of the time, they didn't understand me at all--they just nodded their heads in agreeement, then went and did exactly what THEY wanted to do.  One student in particular (I will call him Ivan), kept telling me that he had to miss school because of "appointment."  "Why weren't you at school yesterday Ivan?"  His response: Appointment.

At long last, I sat him down to investigate this "appointment" thing.  It turns out that he was going fishing!  He had simply learned that, by claiming "appointment," he could be excused from school!

Dan
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 02-26-2011 00:38 Edited 02-26-2011 04:11
If the load is 11,000# or less call Frank Carson, Carson Helicopters. He has a fleet of helicopters, no reach limitations. It ain't cheap, but it works.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 02-26-2011 02:45
I just look at that and it is wrong.
No matter how you make the pixels in to feet or meters.
There is an easy way to do it that has been already done with either adding a crane on the next story or you have to move the crane.
BTW if it reaches 60' on the roof that is probably three 20' girders or beams (take or choice).
Now you need another 10 feet to the center of the next one, and the way you set it up alot more than that.
So best idea might be already have a crane hooked up to the frame at 150'.
I might be wrong, but probably not.
Hope this helps.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
Kent
- By Paladin (***) Date 02-28-2011 14:13
That is an interesting problem I have never really considered. To help visualize the problem I did this with what was handy.
I took a pencil and with the eraser end on the table I leaned it against my coffee mug, the pencil being taller than the mug. Sliding the eraser closer and further away from the mug let me visualize what was happening with the point.
It would scribe an elliptical arc. There seems to be a little leeway at the furthest reach in that the point would almost hover over the longest reach before moving away from optimum.

The formula would be very handy and if I was involved with cranes I would write in on the crane where I would always have it. But I can see that one could make a "scale" model of the crane and building with a straight edge and framing square, for example. Sliding the "scale" boom back and forth and plumbing down on the square one could find the optimal point.

Floyd
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Crane reach

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill