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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Nukes
- - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-16-2011 14:14
With the happenings in Japan, just wondering who else has worked on nukes on this forum?
I have worked on 8 in, Wa., Ca., Ny., Sc., Tn.
Anyone else?
Hope this helps.
Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
Kent
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 03-16-2011 20:33
I've worked in one: Angra I, in Brazil.
The technology of the nuclear part was supplied by Westinghouse. Consulting engineers were Gibbs and Hill, of NY City.
Detail engineering, where I worked, was performed by the Brazilian company Promon Engenharia. This was 30 years ago.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 03-16-2011 20:55 Edited 06-23-2014 18:34
I spent a portion of my early career working with nuclear reactor welding and inspection systemsfor submarines.
Parent - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 03-17-2011 16:32
I spent 20 years trying to avoid (mostly successfully!) working in submarine - and surface ship - nuclear reactors. :grin:
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 03-16-2011 21:05
I spent 3 years at the South Texas Nuclear Project Reactor Unit 1 in Bay City, Texas. I worked there on the New Construction as a Welder for Bechtel
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 03-17-2011 02:05
Did a refueling at Hanford in Wa. State.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-17-2011 02:52
Here is a post by Jock Dempsy from Anvilfire.com, a blacksmithing site I participate on:

Japan's Desaster and the Nuclear situation: Most of this is from a posting I made on another forum.

The problems in Japan have brought to the forefront some very serious issues. They are very timely since the U.S. is on the verge of building more nuclear power plants.

While there is a lot of hype about how safe the new smaller plants are going to be, I think it is just sales hype. We have not yet solved the problems of moving fuel to long term storage facilities OR reprocessing fuel OR taking responsibility for the long term costs that may be incalculable.

The point about nuclear waste is very important. In the U.S. we are playing Ostrich with our heads in the sand. EVERY U.S. plant is storing its entire life time of waste fuel in "temporary" holding. This is outside the containment building in the fuel handling area (where they load it from trucks). The area is often called "the swimming pool" because it looks like one. You can walk along the rail and LOOK at the glowing waste fuel covered only by a few feet of water. This is the same area in Japan where they have had fires and explosions AND where the older Japanese plants also store waste fuel. In the U.S. they have repeatedly rearranged the fuel storage racks to hold more and more fuel because the political problems of moving the materials have not been solved. Many plants are now going to "Dry cask" storage, but the waste fuel is still stored on site. IF this were solved AND the much debated Yucca Mountain facility opened we only have storage available for about 50% of the existing waste fuel.

In Japan the situation is probably not nearly as bad as in the U.S. because they DO move fuel out to be reprocessed and may not be storing the entire plant's lifetime of waste fuel as we do here. But I do not know this for a fact.

The ONLY logical way to handle waste fuel is to reprocess it and properly store the waste (for 40,000 to 1,000,000 years they say. . .). Reprocessing results in making plutonium and the issues of diversion to weapon making. . . There are also serious technological issues with reprocessing as well as the storage which most countries ARE NOT taking responsibility for.

In the end the problems with Nuclear are and have been largely political. In the U.S. the issues of moving waste fuel are political. But the politics run several ways. In Japan they take maintenance VERY seriously. When engineers recommended (Globally) that many components (such as primary coolant pumps) be completely dismantled, inspected and repaired the Japanese did it. In the U.S. they took a "sampling" and did a statistical study. In other words, they paper whipped the maintenance requirements. . . In the U.S. the O.E.M.'s did a lot of the inspecting. Protecting their reputations was more important than finding actual or potential problems. The system in Japan is not perfect either. There are always financial concerns to be considered when doing maintenance. The worst concern EVERYWHERE is how long the plant will be down. These things are looked at as huge money making machines and every hour they are not in operation is counted in millions of dollars lost. . . and thus there is a HUGE amount of pressure during refueling and maintenance outages to get them back on-line ASAP. Anyone at any kind of large plant knows this pressure and the results.

The problems with Nuclear are far too complex with terrible VERY long term implications for us mere humans to be responsible for. If the absolute BEST people were in charge (forever) it would still be too dangerous. But the best people are NOT in charge and the tendency is for the less qualified to replace the more qualified over time. The politicians, lawyers and bean counters have more power than the engineers and maintenance personell. THINK about that. . .

All comparisons of the Japanese situation to Three Mile Island and Chernobyl are ridiculous. At both these previous disasters the surrounding infrastructure was intact. In Japan they lost off-site and on-site power. The SAME thing would happen in the U.S. in such an earth quake related disaster. In Japan they lost personell, transportation, communications and monitoring ability prior to the Nuclear containment issues. The same things COULD happen here or in other countries given a similar earthquake.

NO NEW NUKES!

Note: I am second generation nuclear maintenance. And glad to be out of the business.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-18-2011 07:29 Edited 03-18-2011 07:31
Good points Dave.

I always thought it was silly to store waste fuel on-site. The accidents in Japan make it abundantly clear it is not a good idea to do so.

There is no second chance with nukes.  I believe they can be made safe, but only if all the parts and pieces are in place, like long term disposal or reprocessing of the spent fuel. The designs have to consider the worst case possible, i.e., lost of power, lost of communication, lost of coolant, just as we have seen happen in Japan.

Nearly everything that could go wrong has happened or is happening in Japan. We have to look at the events that are developing in Japan and take a serious look at our plants to see how they would fare under similar circumstances. The Tsunami they experienced was horrific, but it wasn't the worst in historical terms relative to the height of the wave recorded.

Disasters are like bad welds, rarely is it just one thing that goes wrong, it is a multitude of things that go wrong. When taken in the sum the results are more terrible than expected. Bad welds are similar in that rarely is the weld rejected for one reason. The unacceptable weld is usually rejected for a series of unacceptable conditions such as using the wrong polarity, using the wrong technique, undersized, poor fit-up, etc.

We were lucky in the case of Three Mile Island, we only lost some coolant and we only experienced a partial melt-down that was contained. What would have happened if they had lost all power for several days just as they have in Japan? I don’t have an answer.

Every source of energy has problems. Fossil fuels pollute the air. Hydroelectric dams hinders fish migration and silts up the rivers. The wind farms apparently chops up the migratory birds and insect eating bats and sets up harmonic vibrations that can disturb nearby residents. I believe nukes can be built to mitigate the dangers, but there will always be some set of unforeseen circumstances that will render our safeguards impotent. What happens when a large meteor hits the plant? I have been pro-nuke and I think I still am, but the politics have to be settled so the spent fuel is properly and safely stored and or reprocessed. As mentioned, the designs have to be failsafe and that is the part I am not sure we have a good handle on. None of the designs are failsafe in the event everything goes wrong at once.

I wish i could say I have the answer, but I can't. I don't have a solution. Even my wood/charcoal burning stove contributes to air polution, but at least the fuel is renewable. Now if I only had time to build my new boiler so I could power my small steam turbine! I've had my turbine sitting in the crate for at least several years. It is driving me crazy!

Best regards - Al
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-19-2011 02:28
Jock Dempsy, who wrote that post worked with His fathers company designing and building equipmet to service nuke plants. I guess He has changed His position since those days.

I damn sure hope Excelon Limerick is safe, I can see the plume from the cooling towers from My house [that is colser than Russia is to Palin's house].

I would like to see technology to use coal with less environmental impact, as We have so much of it domesticly.

We heated with wood for years ['till Mom got fed up with the dust in the house], but I don't see it as a widespread solution.

I don't have any real solutions either, but when I lived on My boat, My "household" energy needs were usually met by burning 1/2 gallon of diesel per day.
That kept the batteries charged, the fridge cold, freezer frozen and the water heater hot. I tried to stay where I didn't need heat, but used some propane  after I installed a propane heater. Then I put in a propane stove, used a little propane for cooking. Previously I cooked mostly with onboard generated electricity, and sparing use of compressed natural gas. I lived close to the bone back then, something I can not do now.
Parent - By Skaggydog (**) Date 03-19-2011 02:46
You put the waste fuel on Mars.  DUH!
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 03-22-2011 17:16
Those jobs thanks to obingo will be filled by others not from here probably.  That is what he is doing now in Brazil selling more of your $$$$$$$ down the drain of no return for us.  :eek:
Parent - By Jaxddad (**) Date 03-29-2011 14:40
Peach Bottom     Delta, Pa
- By ravi theCobra (**) Date 03-16-2011 22:47
AAh  the good old days 

Westinghouse  Cheswick PA
GE  Bettis Atomic Power Lab
Rolls Royce ( NUCLEAR )
Combustion Engineering
Seabrook  Units  1 &2
Beaver Valley  Station 2
Nine Mile Point
South Texas Project

Just think you young whippersnappers -  I did this when I graduated from college !

and  AFTER  this  I've worked  in petroleum , aircraft equipment and the water industry  -

WHAT  A LIFE  !
- By junkiron (**) Date 03-16-2011 23:56
worked several outages at STP in Bay City, Tx.
I read somewhere that the expansion has been canceled for 2012
- - By Nitrowelding (**) Date 03-18-2011 02:03
I've worked two nuke outages, Cooper nuclear station in brownville Nebraska, and diablo canyon in San Luis opispo Ca. Diablo sits right on the beach, on the San Andreas fault... Oh snap!!!!
Parent - - By Stringer (***) Date 03-19-2011 23:40
I worked nuke construction. I was hoping I might get in a few more years but hell no not now because everyone is in a panic again. Nuclear disasters just haven't proven to be the horror story everyone figured IMHO.  I am very much in favor of nuclear power stations.
Parent - - By Sberry (***) Date 03-20-2011 12:47
Worked on one over 25 yrs ago as a pipe welder for about a year for Bechtel. Something everyone involved in construction should see. One I was on was a real fiasco anjd a poster project for how not to shove 10# of **** in a 5# box among other things.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 03-21-2011 20:08
I worked on 18+ Nuke submarines - both fast attack as well as boomers & super-boomers... in those subs, I worked inside the reactor compartments welding either new construction or repairs in all of them... One of them, the USS Florida which was converted into an SSGN has just lobbed more than a few Tomahawk cruise missile towards Libya over this weekend.:evil::grin::lol:

I also worked inside a few civilian Nuke power plants as well, mostly in the eastern area of the USA.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By dmilesdot (**) Date 03-22-2011 14:33
Al made some very good points in his post. We dont have a reliable source of energy that doenst have some effect on our environment. What coal and oil do is a reality, what Nukes could do is a potential problem. I agree that the waste issue is real, its something that should have been resolved before we ever went down this road, but there was a money to be made so the Nuke industry forged ahead with the promise of a repository to be built. Now Obama wants to stop the repository from being finished. What gives with that? The use of the repository was part of every nukes operational plan. I am in favor of nukes I worked in one as a welder for many years and then worked in several more doing in service inspections.  I believe as Al said, that they can be built to operate safely, the waste is the issue.  France uses glass encapsulation and has had no problems since they began their nuclear program. So why dont we use that method? I can only figure its because the right company wont make money off of it. To shut down our nukes because of what happened in Japan would leave a lot of people in the dark in this country and put a lot more out of work. Its all about the probabitlity of a disaster large enough to cause a major problem. It is my understanding that the Japanese nuke plant was told by the designer that the Residual Heat Removal system which is the system that failed, needed modifications but they chose not to do them because of cost.  The question becomes would these modifications have saved the disaster they now face? We wont ever know. just my two cents.
d
Parent - By Stringer (***) Date 03-24-2011 01:42
Sberry, I'm reminded by your comment that my experience was that the piping design was 'interesting' to say the least. What a blast from the past.
- - By fireminime3 Date 03-29-2011 13:28
How did some of you guys go about Getting into the nuclear industry?
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 03-29-2011 13:39
I got a call from a headhunter.  They flew me to an interview, made an offer, and hired me.  Then I had to wait for my security clearance.  It took 3 months but they let me work in an unclassified facility until my clearance came in.  Some people took up to a year to get a clearance. Clean living is key. They will even check into your friends and family.  One guy I worked with whose clearance was up for renewal was grilled by the FBI about his son's pot use.  The FBI grilled me and wanted to know if the father used POT.  The parinoia back then was that if a person's family was in trouble the KGB could use that as blackmail to recruit them to spy.  One woman who was straight was accused of being a lesbian during her clearance investigation because she lived with a female roommate.   The same questioning logic was applied to her.  However I lived as a straight with 2 straight male roommates in a shared house for 8 years and was never questioned on it.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-29-2011 14:42
Until now........

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By fireminime3 Date 03-29-2011 15:18
Did you Go to school for welding? or what did you do before that?
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 03-29-2011 15:33
I have a BS in Welding Engineering Technology.  4 years of study.  I worked as a weldor and then QC inspector while in school.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-29-2011 21:58
I BS in welding engineering technology myself.
Parent - By kcd616 (***) Date 03-29-2011 21:24 Edited 03-29-2011 21:30
Sub contracted for Bechtel.
Almost any nuke is a Bechtel job.
And it paid great $ :evil:
Hope this helps.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
Kent
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Nukes

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