2% cerium tungsten & 2% thorium

Date 03-16-2011 16:07

Milt,

Not real sure about your question. But let's try this info:

All tungsten electrodes have tungsten in them. The 'Pure' ones have 99.5% tungsten with .5% "Other Oxides or Elements". The rest have other percentages of the other elements such as Thorium, Lanthium, Zirconium, etc. They generally have somewhere CLOSE to 1-2% of thes elements added to the tungsten. They are then called: 1% Thoriated Tungsten, or, 2% Lanthanated Tungsten, or, Ceriated Tungsten, etc.

They are mostly 'Tungsten' and are generally just referred to as 'Tungsten Electrodes'. The other elements are added to the tungsten to achieve certain desired results for performance and quality/stability of arc.

Hope I have explained this to your satisfaction. Maybe others can do better to help out.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 03-16-2011 18:58

Is there a 2% cerium tungsten.

M.G.

By OBEWAN

Date 03-16-2011 19:29

The one I am familiar with is called ceriated, but it is made from a small cerium addition.

Here is some data:

http://www.thefabricator.com/article/arcwelding/guidelines-for-tungsten-electrodes#

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-17-2011 16:09

If I am looking at info correctly,

The 'Ceriated' Tungsten is made by adding 2.2% Cerium Oxide. So, that may qualify as being 2% Cerium. But that is not what it is called.

Here is the list I have in front of me right now: Pure, 1% Thoriated, 2% Thoriated, 1% Lanthanated, 1.5% Lanthanated, 2% Lanthanated, Ceriated, & Zirconiated Tungstens.

Again, all have about 99.5 % Tungsten with about .5% Other Oxides or Elements then add the other elements to get the various trade name mixes. Obviously, as they add other elements the amount of Tungsten decreases. The lowest on my list here are about 97.3% Tungsten.

Hope that helps.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By OBEWAN

Date 03-17-2011 17:10

The article I posted stated there is a range from something like 1.8 to 2.28 which is commonly called ceriated. I don't know if the supply varies or if you can buy a fixed percent like 2%, but if 2% is in the range then it is possible to have a 2% ceriated electrode.

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 03-17-2011 22:09

I e-mail the salesman today an ask if he could get some 2% cerium tungsten and he said he could. I've did a search on the forum and the way I read the search you can get 2% cerium tungsten.I will let you know if you can. The reason I wanted it because that what it calls out on a dynasty 350 for AC & DC current.

M.G.

By OBEWAN

Date 03-17-2011 23:01

I really don't think the difference in the range of 1.8 to 2.28 would even be noticeable. The big thing effected would be arc starting.

What is more important is the difference between thoriated and ceriated. Most of the weldors I know HATE making the switch based upon arc starting and arc stability alone.

I would say try it to see how you like it before you buy too much unless you are really worried about the tiny risk of radiation with the thorium. And it is really only a risk if you inhale or ingest the grinding dust over a long period of time.

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 03-17-2011 23:43

We are going to try a pack of 10 first. We all have to learn these new welding machine so for they are working out good.

M.G.

By OBEWAN

Date 03-17-2011 23:48

You can probably get some free samples if you talk to the vendors.

When I worked in the jet engine shops as a welding engineer they sent me free samples all the time. The weldors never used them and I had a desk drawer with probably 100 sample electrodes collecting dust.

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 03-18-2011 22:24

OBEWAN,You where right on I got ceriated tungsten in today.

M.G.

By jrupert (*)

Date 03-21-2011 20:09

Let us know how they turn out. One company I worked for was using them on some automated TIG machines and they would only get about 100 parts out before having to change the electrode and perform a setup. I switched everything over to 2% Thoriated and we were able to get about 250 parts out before a changeover. That is just my experience, however, I like 2% thoriated the best anyway.

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 03-21-2011 23:42

jrupert, We've just stared using the ceriated tungsten and it seem to do alright but we are hand GTAW,I've used the 2% thoriated for years also on the old 350 machine but the new dynasty calls for the 2% cerium and the ceriated has cerium in it.Have you tried the 1.5 lanthanated tungsten they say it will wholed up a lot like the thoriated.

M.G.

By MMyers

Date 03-22-2011 13:33

1.5% lanthanated is the only tungsten we use on our automated equipment. It holds up considerably better than thoriated when used with shielding gases that contain helium, which is most of what we do. If shielding is good, we get about 2 arc hours out of the tungstens used for rotating tungsten narrow gap welding (Arc Machine's NGT-B).

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 03-22-2011 17:55

I agree with Mike for autometed GTAW... On low amp projects we could get over 8 continuious arc hours on a single lanthanum tip prep. For very low amp, semi auto GTAW, or orbital operations, tungsten alloy choice can be a factor.

As far as manual GTAW on steels and stainless... In my opinion... If the operator was to do a blind type of comparison, I seriously doubt even a seasoned pro could tell the difference between Thorium, Cerium, or Lanthanum tungsten electrodes on grooves or fillets as long as they were within the normal operating amperage ranges for the diameter of electrode.

There are however differences in vendors. The powder mettalurgy process used to form tungstens can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer so brand can make a difference in quality.

By MMyers

Date 03-23-2011 16:42

Absolutely, regarding the tungsten MFGs. This was a topic that came up during the hot wire presentations at the '07 welding show. Things like oxide dispersion in the tungsten can make a significant difference in operation and life.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 03-24-2011 22:24 Edited 03-24-2011 22:27

And just to add on Lawrence's statement regarding "Powder Metallurgy..."

Here's an explanation in more detail to help one understand one of the many different processes used in powder metallurgy...

While tungsten has the highest melting point of any metal, its powdery oxide form becomes volatile at 580 degrees Celsius. This allows mills to alloy it with the oxides of thorium, molybdenum or rhenium as well as the newer oxides such as cerium & lanthanum and other oxides for different uses besides the manufacturing of non-consumable electrodes through a process known as "sintering and pressing, otherwise known sometimes as densification."

First, the oxide powders are mixed together in a rectangular crucible and placed inside a sealed chamber filled only with hydrogen gas. Next, a hydraulic press compacts the powder while the crucible heats the mixture to 1800 degrees Celsius. After a few hours, the powder transforms into a solid metal block called an "ingot." In many cases, the crucible (and hence the ingot) will be shaped like the electrode, resulting in a finished product. Otherwise, the ingot is removed to another part of the factory where it is ground into its final shape with the help of a powerful laser or tungsten-carbide grinder. :grin:

Respectfully,
Henry :wink:

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 03-25-2011 00:30

Henry... Mighty Sumbariner!

Good to see your words.

The ice is finally thawing here and I'm soon going to be out to find the fish... Lets get some picks going in the "off topic" area of our mighty fishing exploits... Heh...

Thank you for rounding out the educational part of the thread... I really love when you do that.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 03-25-2011 01:32

Milton these folks have advice way above my pay grade. It took me three tries to get Ceriated from my supplier, I finally got the sales manager on the phone and said get a pen and paper please...ok got it...I WANT A BOX OF C AS IN CHARLIE E AS IN ECHO R AS IN ROGER etc I finally got my tungsten...I use it for A/C aluminum work and I love it...I use a lot less and it is a lot less hassle.

HANK :grin:

Glad to see ur uh hear from ya Bro!!!! hope all is well with ya.