Self-employed and interested in D1.1

By tbone550 Date 03-30-2011 18:53

First, thanks to AWS for having these forums available. I've been a member here for a little while, but I have a question or two I wonder if you'd be willing to help with. Some of you may recognize me from another forum, so "Hi" in advance. I'm not asking this there because of the number of inexperienced people I'd be getting "answers" from. You know what I mean!

I'm a self-employed weldor in Harrisonburg, VA with little formal welding education. Most jobs I'm called on involve equipment repair - probably half of my work comes from equipment rental companies. I've been at this for almost five years, and am looking to move into more 'professional' type work. Several local factories have called me with work opportunities, but they always ask if I'm "certified," to which the answer is always 'no.' Then they say, let us know when you are.

My work is mobile, and generally run-of-the-mill 7018 structural work. Among those who have asked, almost no one has specified which "certification" they want, and honestly I don't think most of them know, although the type of work they'd need would generally be structural. I did lose one job that needed a D1.1 cert which I don't have.

Most companies in this area haven't certified their weldors, although I do know one company that I previously worked for that would lie and say they had. I know, because I took their cert "test" which involved having two other weldors watch me run a couple of random beads with stick and MIG, and then pronounce me "certified." No destructive testing, etc. So I've decided that being cert'd, probably through an AWS ATF, would give me a leg up over most everybody else around here. I think being able to find my name and cert number on this website would be an advantage, and I'm trying to figure out how to do it most cost-effectively. Most of my customers aren't going to have their own tests to give me.

The closest ATF to me is Earl Beck in Baltimore, but the test itself will run $600 or $655, depending on 3/8" or 1" plate. The class to take beforehand runs nearly $2,000. There's also another beginner class which may or may not be a prerequisite to the cert-prep class. It also runs nearly $2,000. Has anyone in my position done something like this before? Is that a normal expense for the class and test? It seems high to me, but ???? My other option is to skip the class, take the test, and if I fail I can retest later for another $250 or $275, I forget which. If I don't use power tools, I can get a dual-cert to D1.5 for an additional $275. Although I don't foresee any bridge work in the near future, who knows?

I might consider ASME in the future, but I've never done any pressure pipe welding, and there's no central online database I'm aware of for ASME cert lookup like there is for AWS. For a guy with a truck out on his own, I think the AWS online database will give me the most bang for my buck when it comes to a desk jockey trying to validate my claims vs my competitors' claims.

What do y'all think? Any additional ideas or comments are welcome. Thanks in advance.

By OBEWAN

Date 03-30-2011 18:59

Jobs that require certs vary depending on which code the contracting authority specifies in the purchase order.

Typically, weldors certify for each job they are hired for and the employer pays for the certs.

And they real tough thing is that in most codes if a weldor does not weld using a procedure for a specific code within 6 months, the cert expires and a recert is required.

By 803056

Date 03-30-2011 19:35

One of the most valuable courses a welder/owner can take is the AWS CWI review.

The review covers many aspects of welding at a very fast pace. It isn't a school, it is a review, but it offers a crash course on subjects the welder/owner should be aware of.

Many welders will tell you that they learned more from the CWI course than they have learned in twenty years on the job.

The certification is a valuable instrument, but it only demonstrates the welder can deposit a sound weld. It doesn't demonstrate the welder's knowledge of welding.

Best regards - Al

By tbone550 Date 03-30-2011 20:34

803, sounds like that would be a valuable course. I'll have to look into it further. AWS sends me CWI info all the time, but they're always coming to PA, never to VA!

By 803056

Date 03-31-2011 05:07

There will be a course offered in Charlotte in August if that is any closer or easier to get to.

The CWI seminar is expensive, but well worth the time and cost involved. The amount of information covered is amazing. Once you have sat through the course you will ask yourself why anyone would consider being in business as a owner/welder without knowing what is taught in the seminar.

Best regards - Al

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 03-31-2011 11:38

I took my CWI exam in Norfolk, Va(usually it is here in the Spring)....our AWS Section #179 holds the CWI exam and Seminar in Roanoke, Va sometime in the Fall.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 03-31-2011 13:57

tbone,

Al has really provided an excellent tip. Ever since I first attended a seminar and took the CWI exams I have told all my competitors in my local area they really need to send at least one key person in the employ to the seminar rather they take the exams or not. I have said so here on the forum as well. And you get the current edition of D1.1, A3.0, A2.4 and other materials for the cost of the course. Makes it well worth the week spent.

It will give them so much information from the basics of finding info important to their operation in the Code books, to much background in the welding industry not covered in many welding courses in college (not all colleges mind you, but most concentrate only on the process you want to learn to weld; covers safety, duties & responsibilities, metallurgy, testing procedures, and much more), then closes with practice using the weld gages and knowing what to look for in discontinuities.

Al recently did an excellent article in the 'Inspection Trends' which can be viewed on the AWS Website that gives some good info on weld gage use. But the course will cover more aspects of that.

From there you can decide how far you want to go into D1.1 and rather you think you could be a CWI or not.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By tbone550 Date 03-30-2011 20:34

OBEWAN, right on all counts. Unfortunately, I'm about 100 percent certain that most of these plant supervisors have even less of an idea which cert is actually required for the work they want performed than I do. As I said above, I've been in these same factories watching some of a previous companies' weldors doing pressure pipe work and I'm positive no one in the company held an ASME (or otherwise) cert of any type.

So when asked the vague question of "Are you certified?", they have no idea what I'm talking about if I ask which certification specifically are they asking about? They assumed they just asked a yes/no question. I need to be able to truthfully answer, "yes." And then go from there, to include explaining that I am or am not qualified to do the particular work they need done.

I wouldn't have any trouble keeping up a D1.1 cert. A pressure pipe cert would be harder to keep up because of the lack of work in that field. I could see easily going 6 mos between jobs of that type.

By OBEWAN

Date 03-30-2011 20:38

In that case if you get a D1.1 plate for all positions to say 1" max you should be covered for most jobs. Carbon steel P1 group etc...

By Superflux (****)

Date 03-31-2011 04:58

If you were to find out which Test your factory of choice is using, then I would shell out the test fee and go for it.
I happen to know some of the fellas at Earlbeck and tested there myself about 2 months ago. Our company uses them for a variety of services. It is a fine facility with well maintained equipment and a knowledgeable/helpful staff of instructors and an SCWI. If you decide to have training there, I feel you will get your moneys worth. The $2000 may sound high, but it is a tax deduction and if not, it is still as I call it, "the price of doing business." If it opens the door and lands you your dream job, then you and only you can make the decision if it is worth the $2K.
Don't get me wrong, I have no allegiance to EarlBeck, If you happen to find a place closer and that fits your needs and schedule, why bother with that awful D.C. traffic! I commuted from Faifax, Va. to there for a week and it ran between 1.5 to 3.25 hours each way.