Suggestions on "garage type" projects

By welder_guy2001 (***)

Date 10-27-2002 01:46

repair work is always a good thing to get into also. everybody needs something fixed that they can't do themselves. and if you're really serious about it, a good TIG welder would be nice to have so you can also weld aluminum and stainless steel w/ a neat appearance.

I don't know about where you're from, but up here in Anchorage, Alaska the going rate for a full-fledged shop welding operation is $60-70/hr.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 10-30-2002 12:46

Repair work is always interesting because you never know what kind of material might walk through the door.
Just a thought,
John Wright

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 11-02-2002 06:45

Repair welder (you) to customer- Hi Ed, what's up.
Ed- My widget here is busted.
You (looking at widget)- Gee Ed this thing is all bent, restraightened and fatigued out, why don't I just make you a new one.
Ed- Nah I'm going to get rid of the machine it goes in soon and I don't want to spend a lot.
You- Well I could grove out these cracks and reweld it. Have it for you tomorrow.
Ed- I've got a job for the machine tomorrow. How about you just run a bead on it where it's broken just so I can get through the day.
You- Well if that's what you want but I can't guarantee it.
Ed- Yeah that should do it.

Six months pass.
You- Hi Ed, what's up
Ed- You can't weld worth a darn. You just fixed this and it's broke allready.

Sometimes it's not the material but the customers that make repairs interesting.
Bill

By Michael Sherman (***)

Date 11-02-2002 12:56

Bill, you hit the nail on the head. At that point you have to have the integrity to say "sorry, we fix it right or not at all". It is the only choice. Also, concerning the original question, if you are totally inexperienced in repair and fabrication or have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, please take a short course in welding fundamentals. You will be amazed at how much you don't know. If you don't have time or money for that, then purchase some good books such as Lincoln Electric Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding. It is an excellent reference book for the beginner and even for those who have some knowledge. It is also dirt cheap. The simplest things like keeping low hydrogen in an oven and your 6010 not in your oven and when to use each. Or when not to use your short circuit mig and to put flux core in it instead. If you cannot answer these points with confidence than you are not ready to do repair work for a paying customer. Please do not take offense, I only want you to do good work. I am also speaking to you from the vantage point of experience. I too was once a new business owner. I am now quite successful with ten employees. People will remember the one job you screw up forever, I mean forever. Yet over the years if jobs are done correctly, the only thing you may hear is "yeah he's pretty good or take it over to so and so, he'll fix you up." Knowledge of your chosen profession equals success, without it you are just another guy with a welder that the pros will shake their head and walk away from. Good luck.

Respectfully,
Mike Sherman
Shermans Welding

By SUBLIME (*)

Date 11-02-2002 14:07

Thanks Mike

Believe me, I realize that I know next to nothing at this point. All I have is the iterest and intense desire to try and get a little something going. I have looked into our local community college. They offer all types of courses. Problem is, to get up to the TIG course there are many prerequisit courses. I know it is set up that way for good reason, I just don't want to go through 3 or 4 semesters of classes at this point for what I will be doing. I may see if I can take one of the tig courses for non-credit, even if I just sit back, listen and observe with a mask on.

As far as what I want to do with this little venture.... I'm hoping to think of something to fabricate/weld to make a little "mad" money. I figure with one or two products I can stick with welding new, known materials vs someone bringing something over to repair and I'm not sure what material it is or why it failed and what to do to keep it from failing again.

Thanks to all for replying and keep them coming

By Michael Sherman (***)

Date 11-02-2002 15:49

Try taking a basic course in SMAW. Once you know the principles involved you will have no problem advancing to other processes (GMAW, GTAW, FCAW) I feel strongly that this is where you need to start. Lincoln Electric, Hobart Welding school and most vocational schools have a basic class. I believe in a program that is heavy with hands on and yet gives the theory behind what you are doing. This way you will understand why you are doing it and then you can apply that knowledge to other applications as they arise.

Respectfully,
Mike Sherman
Shermans Welding

By dee

Date 11-02-2002 20:39

With the proper arrangements, it is usually possible to be interviewed by the department head of your college, with the purpose of determining exactly where to properly place you so you dont have to sit through those prerequisites which may truely be unnecesary... I was able to bypass about four semesters of them in my study of art, but had a portfolio of work to submit for evaluation... I doubt it would be practical to lug in your car trailer project, etc.

There is also the option of "auditing" those prerequisirte courses yourself to see if you really do need them or if you think you can pass the test without formally investing your time there... "sit in" on them with proper permission.
They make you take prerequisites because they are the foundation upon which the rest of the training wil lay. Typically, the information is necessary for your success; you gotta have it- wherever you get it is unimportant as long as its there. If its missing you will soon find yourself over your head and sinking.

So, considering what you dont know and the qualifications yet to be earned, manufacturing liability in todays litiguous society, and the value of your time compared to that of nearly unpaid Chineese workers, why not consider limiting your products to decorative ornamental pieces and the like for indoor and outdoor use... keep people out of, off of and generally a distance from the stuff for a while as you train and learn.
It provides a decent mark up and you can offer custom work, where both the buyer and seller should fully understand ethical and legal implications of products clearly marketed "as is".

Regards
d

By welder_guy2001 (***)

Date 11-02-2002 20:14

at the shop i worked for, the boss would suggest what should be done...if the customer didn't want that much done and only wanted a quick fix, the boss would tell him of the consequences. at least that way he'd let the customer know that he doesn't approve of that kind of repair, but if that's what the customer wants, then that's what he'll get. and that way if the part does break again, it doesn't come back on the welder, but on the customer. but then again, too many people have the mentality of "the customer is always right," yet the customer doesn't want it done right, and doesn't have the ability to do it right themselves. I can't stand people who don't take responsibility for their own actions and decisions!

By bzzzzzzzzzz (**)

Date 11-02-2002 01:17

Liability would be a consideration if you made tree stands. The way I understand it, each commercially made treestand would cost about 25.00 less if special liability insurance were not required of the seller. Just a thought. Nearly had an incident with a store bought one myself. My son had his belt on (am I glad of that), when the seat support cable failed. It's vinyl coated and was breaking internally with no outward signs. All of the sudden his seat "disappeared" from under him. His safety belt prevented any injury. This stand is manufactured by a major treestand Co. Called them and they apologized and stated that assembly errors had been made on some of the stands. They were changing to a shoulder bolt so the cable link could not be overtightened to where it could not pivot. (Thus preventing the stress that severed the support cable over time). Long story, but it shows you anything can happen.

By Jay Krout (*)

Date 11-03-2002 01:04

Mr. Sherman and welder guyand Mr. Vanderhorf--A prime example of what you are talkin about is the springs that I welded together that I talked about in another post. I told the lad that this was only temporary, and was not gonna last forever, and he understood that, and I made sure he understood that. When you got a a big pile of coal that needs to get to the breaker you gotta have that truck rollin or it doesn't do anyone any good. I knew the springs should be replaced, he knew it, but those 3 days it's down puts everybody in a pinch, so you do what you can, hope for the best, and pray. I figure this way, I'll TRY anything once, I won't guarantee it if I'm not certain about it, but if the customer wants it, he's gotta understand that before I try it. Please forgive me for feeling this way, but I've been doing this stuff this way all my life, and I would have to say quite successfully. Thank you. J Krout

By dee

Date 11-03-2002 02:51

Jay,
I think you know I understood the practical value of being able to do a REPAIR on demand with materials at hand on-the-spot (or nearly so), but I am aware of validity of the other view. Niether position is cut and dried or always right.

I must respect those people with the attitude that they will not do a job at all unless they were confident it would be done "right". Having been of the school subscribing to the concept of doing the best with what is on hand, I must say from experience that there also is merit to the opposite school of thought- that it should not be done at all if not done "right". It's a safer position to take and one's reputation seems to survive better... unless the equipment costs more while "down" than the temporary repair.

There is also valid merit in the ability to at least try to fix anything... the guy who was turned away from a shop or two will recall the welder who repaired a part to his satisfaction, and will have a hard time recommending the shops who played it "safe".

I dont know the right call to make, and try to handle each case and exception on an individual basis at the level I encounter them.

regards
d

By Jay Krout (*)

Date 11-03-2002 10:58

dee; The questions you've got to ask yourself when you do something like this is one of safety, if someone is going to get hurt it if it don't work then don't do it. noone will get hurt over busted leaf springs on that machine, and as far as downtime, anyone who understands the anthracite coal industry knows that if something is down as far as the owner is concerned the world will come to an end. And these guys are always lookin for ways to save a buck, it's the nature of these guys and this business, old miners are old miners and set in there ways, and this a slowly dying industry unless more uses can be found for coal, and this is due to the owners themselves but that's another story, but these guys will try to fix anyhting once, and they usually will go with someone who is not afraid to experiment a bit, and I'm that kind of a person.
I guess you could say it's pennywise and dollar stupid. Thank for your comments, I respect everyones opinion here and try to do things right, and I get on here occasionally for pointers and I have picked a few up just listening, but maybe I can help someone else with my neanderthal type experience as well. Sorry to waste so much space. Thanks again. Regards J Krout

By billvanderhoof (****)

Date 11-04-2002 05:33

I believe everybody who does repair welding recognises my little attempt to be humorous. We have all heard it and most of us have done those "just get me one day" fixes, I surely have. Lots of times the man really does have work and really needs his widget because thats how he feeds his family. In good cases it is as it was with your springs- the customer says get me the day but also order the parts. In bad cases the customer comes back in six months, forgets all you said about this being a one day repair and wants the work redone on warrantee.

As you say if safety is involved you have to refuse but in many cases it is not. Then you and the customer need to agree on what is to be done and the likelyhood that it will be successful.

We all walk the line. Try to keep everybody safe (including ourselves). Still you can't drive the customers away by being to much of a hardass

Seems to me you've got it about right.

Bill