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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Curtain Requirements for Arc Welding
- - By JoJoB Date 11-05-2002 15:43
We have an arc-welding area in the middle of our plant. The area is currently enclosed on all sides by portable screens. The screens are the yellow transparent kind. Employees who pass by the area are complaining about the arc hurting their eyes. Telling them not to look at the arc, as one person in my plant suggested, is not a viable solution.

My question: is there any color/type of transparent or translucent screen that would be appropriate to address this problem, which is both a hazard and an annoyance? I would like to avoid using an opaque screen if at all possible, mostly to keep the operators in the welding area from feeling quite isolated. It's also nice to have a transparent screen to monitor employee activity and also for them to see what's going on around them. However, safety comes first--so whatever is most appropriate is what we'll use.

Thanks in advance for any help provided.
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 11-06-2002 12:51
Most likely the screens you have meet OSHA requirments and will not burn your eyes but can be a distraction.

You can switch to the dark blue screens that knock down more of the light at the expence of some of effects you mentioned.
Parent - By Wildturkey (**) Date 11-06-2002 13:08
JoJob,
I have worked around the screens that you talking about for many years. I am not positive what OSHA requirements are for the blinds but I have used the yellow and red. The red does seem to not let as much light pass through but I think you are dealing with a case of the employees just wanting something to fuss about. I suggest that you check to find out if the blinds meet OSHA requirements. If they do then tell anyone fussing about the arc to look the other way. If this is not a solution then you will have to double up on the blinds or change to a non-translucent blind.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 11-06-2002 14:42
Having worked with and around welding for over 20 years now, I guess I've become "desensitized" to complaints about bright lights from welding (Of course it's bright! Don't stare at it!). It's like driving with the sun low in the sky to me. But these days we do need to be mindful of other peoples discomforts.
Hopefully everyone anywhere near the welding is required to wear safety glasses, those alone greatly reduce the harmful effects of arc rays.
Some things you could do would to be use 2 screens together. Or you can try different combinations of colors to see what works best (we use mostly a single layer of dark gray). Or you could add a 3' wide strip from the top of your existing screens. That will reduce glare at eye level but still allow you to monitor activity. Maybe you can have some small, dark screens on hand to drag in place when welding must be done in a low position.
Hope all works out well for you,
CHGuilford
Parent - By dee (***) Date 11-06-2002 22:14
CH,
That desensitization is called opacity, somewhat different from the cataracts also caused by exposure to arc radiation... It hasnt caused me any problems either... (sorry, my flu meds warped my sense of humor... where'd I put that white cane?)

What do you think about blue filtering out red spectrum (and passing blue) and red filtering out blue spectrum (and passing red)? Made sense to me, so I use grey myself, which supposedly does it all with mediocrity. I think it also has something to do with a red beam from a ruby laser's inability to break a red baloon, if that story is true. It was supposedly demonstrated in my physics class, but my independent research on radiation had me taking measurements on the beach on that warm summer day and I never actually witnessed it.

On a totally serious note you describe a trait common in human behavior- looking at what we ought not. I believe the more complete solution also includes a practical application of psychology addressing this and other foibles common to human nature in the workplace, as well as your good advice on safety and protective equipment.

Regards,
D
Parent - By underwooddl Date 11-06-2002 19:05
As you may have learned the hard way, not all vinyl is equal when it comes to filtering UV and blue light. Also, remember that curtains are intended to protect the people passing by the welding station and were never intended to replace good eye protection. Suggest you check on the subject "weld curtains" from some various manufacturers on the net. Good safety-vue weld curtains are not cheap. Some places you might check are:
wilsonindustries.com
revcoindustries.com
frommeltsafetyproducts.com

Don Underwood
Parent - - By dee (***) Date 11-06-2002 21:10
The issue your help is raising may stem from valid concern for their safety and their ability to literally see into their retirement. Workers talk among themselves... I may be reading more into this than I should, or you may not be reading in enough. Most of us here see the issue as one more of comfort than safety, presuming your screens meet any kind of industry standard and that your shop safety program requires wearing sefety glasses at all times on the floor... you know it, I know it, but do they know it?

A real solution may be to educate the help. If they had confidence in the safety of your curtains fears may be alleviated and the problem might go away. How much radiation does a typical arc create? How much protection are they supposed to be wearing at all times? How much additional protection does the curtain provide? If you dont know how much, you have plenty of company, but I am not surprised your help is worried, because I would probably be...

Then again, the arc may actually hurt their eyes- does it hurt yours enough to be an issue? Does a make-shift temporary opaque shield of plywood solve it- if so you can ignore most of this post and look for a darker curtain, but it might not help.

Got any related technical and safety data to copy and leave in your break area? You might go as far as to require they study up on the problem and submit recommendations toward a solution themselves, based on material you provide.
In any event, understanding a hazard is the first step towards safety, and safety training is a good policy. It demonstrates your concern and responsibility... who knows, the sensitive guy complaining may wind up satisfied with a clip-on flip-up sunglass lense over his safetys.

Perhaps a brighter light surrounding the entire weld area itself would be the appropriate investment; perhaps the shop is dark enough that a weld arc does hurt an eye with a dilated pupil... causing it to constrict a bit ahead of time may help... it's a cones-and-rods thing (does the same welding arrangement cause a problem outside in full sun?) ...is there enough light to see easily with dark sunglasses (something around perhaps shade 3 or 4) this may contribute to the problem if the floor is "dark"- a relative term we each may interpret differently. I dont have data handy on light levels, but we forget they do matter, and this might be a symptom.

At some point employees can go beyond responsible concern for their health and welfare and become merely disruptive for the sake of disruption. Unfortunately some individual human beings are simply disposed to be that way, and an unfortunate reality is the shop would probably do better without them. That's the point at which you tell them to work across the street... when they say they didnt know you had a shop over there, say that you dont, and hope they take the hint... or worse, be direct.

Of course responsibility and safety are of prime concern and have to be assured at all times. We are dealing with safety- life, and limb... apply the context accordingly.

While this different spin on solving the problem may not be appropriate in your case, there certainly is validity to this psychology relating to leadership.
Reassuring the help that no dangerous exposure ever occured can only be helpfull in the long run; I doubt it ever did. The most dangerous of this light apparently has difficulty even passing through window glass, and does not tend to cause an immediate discomfort upon exposure... even air itself- distance- is an effective filter. You'll probably find most of the trouble is from the intensity of visible light in the immediate area.

Good luck with it.

Regards,
d
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 11-06-2002 21:40
Oh @#*&%!!

Put up heavy green curtains and block all the light and if you want to know if the welders are goofing off look at the ceiling or the light on the floor.

By the way, if you have glossy painted beams the light may bounce right on out and back to you. And if you have waxy floors don't look down.

I guess you can always resort to examining production reports for the welders.
Parent - - By JoJoB Date 11-07-2002 13:59
Wow! You folks sure have a lot of insight--and some very nice suggestions. I'm going to get together with my committee to review the suggestions.

I will check out the mfr. resources listed, but I seem to recall looking at a couple of those and not finding anything.

I particularly like CH's suggestion about putting strips on the top part of the booth. That might be the most cost-effective solution for us. The two-tone effect might be a bonus in terms of a design statement (ha!).

Our employees are very proficient at "selective reading". They can't seem to read the notices we post at the time clock printed in 72-point type, but they will find some 1" x 2" manufacturer's sticker at the bottom corner of a welding screen.

The sticker that seemed to set the issue off reads:

"WARNING! DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE ARC--ARC RAYS CAN INJURE THE EYES. This material is not intended as a substitute for goggles and/or helmets for eye protection."

In addition to selective reading, our employees also practice "selective interpretation".

These are the same people who found the notice stapled to pallet lumber and brought it to me. The notice states that wood dust is a nasal carcinogen. Since we assemble our own crating systems in the shipping area of our plant, they're all convinced they're going to get cancer. Mind you, the shipping employees were not the ones griping.

Thanks for all the replies!
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 11-07-2002 15:03
More than once I've wanted to ask the complainers how safe is it at the unemployment lines. What I have often seen is many of those people will think nothing of using a grinder at home without safety glasses. The biggest complainers regarding weld smoke seem to be those who smoke at least 2 packs a day (sorry- I'm an ex-smoker myself so I tend to be hard on the habit). But that doesn't mean we can ignore the problems. I think dee is right, it's a psychology thing. Many people feel like herd animals following the leader without knowing why. It makes their day if they can stir the pot without getting anything splashed on themselves. But if ignored, one disgruntled employee can soon become 2 disgruntled employees, and so on (I think it's called fission).

Soooo... I think the best approach is to do the research like you have been and make REASONABLE changes so they feel you have listened.
Afterall, some people are genuinely concerned and you will gain their loyalty. And one loyal person can become 2, and so on (I think that's called fusion).

I better quit here before this gets anymore syrupy and I ruin my reputation.
Anyway, good luck with it
CHGuilford

Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-07-2002 16:08
We were challenged by the OSHA lady on one of her visits to our production area about this very thing(welding flash). Her solution was to put the screens up, just like it sounds you have done. You know, just in case someone should wander in off the street and watch the arc. Any way to totally protect everyone that could possibly enter from all directions, she agreed, would be next to impossible given the layout of our shop.
Back to your problem, This is only my opinion, but it sounds like you have done everything right according to OSHA with this issue. Maybe you could offer some Uvex model Astro OTG 3001 #5 shade cutting glasses (that even fit over prescription glasses) to the complainers and see how fast they move their complaints from the welding flash issue to tripping over their own feet.
Good Luck trying to please everyone,
John Wright
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