USe of Argon in MAG welding machine

By js55

Date 05-26-2011 11:43

Perhaps you can explain what a MAG welding machine is.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 05-26-2011 12:02

Jeff,
In other parts of the world I have heard/read that MAG is respresenting Metal Active Gas Welding (MAG) and Metal Inert Gas Welding (MIG) both using solid wire electrodes.....

By js55

Date 05-26-2011 13:20 Edited 05-26-2011 13:23

John,
I suppose I was being a little facetious. I am aware of the idea of Metal Active Gas. And you're right, the terminology is used more often in europe especially, but perhaps elsewhere as well. We don't use it much here (the AWS from on high choosing the GMAW abbreviation and MIG being non standard-perhaps we need AGMAW :twisted:

). The IIW, based in Paris (though there is an office in Florida), has hundreds of articles on the subject. I have a few in this pile of shyt I call a library. But I am not aware of any special hardware associated with it. My understanding is that its simply a gas relationship in which case chemically active gases such as oxygen and CO2 would be applicable.
Anything other than inerts (Ar, He, etc.) utilized as a gas shielding would be considered active, carbon and oxygen being the biggies but N as well. There may be some more specificity to it but my memory fails me in my grizzled years.

By Joseph P. Kane (****)

Date 05-26-2011 14:28

This gas, when used with solid Carbon Steel and with solid Stainless Steel electrodes, is mostly used for sort circuiting transfer. Other electrodes, such as FCAW and MCAW can use this gas in the spray transfer mode.

Sometimes this gas can be used for Spray transfer, but only by increasing the voltage to the point that the cross sectional density of the electrode is saturated. Sometimes this is considered to be a relatively "cool" gas thermally, so it can be used in those inexpensive, low duty cycle MAG welding machines. I have never heard of it harming any welding machine.

I cannot explain what it does to the welding bead. If you want to see what some of various volt/wire feed speed/ travel speed welding parameter effects look like on deposited metal, I suggest you go on line to the ESAB Web site, and open their MIG Welding Handbook. The most significant beneficial effects of short circuiting transfer are low penetration, the ability to weld on thin metals, and the ability to weld in all positions with many electrodes. The most significant deleterious effects of short circuiting transfer are a tendency to produce lack of fusion defects, low penetration, and the inability to cope with mill scale, foreign matter, & oils, Etc.

I believe it is the second most widely used shielding gas. (Straight CO2 is the most widely used.

By js55

Date 05-26-2011 15:03

Still Joe, what is a MAG welding machine. Short circuit is not synonymous with active gases nor are active gases synonymous with low duty cycle machines.
Is it an actually different type of machine or a non standard (i.e. slang) categorical term for low duty cycle machines used for short circuit with active gases?
Or something else entirely?

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 05-26-2011 18:49

I have never heard of "sort circuiting transfer" Is that a European term also??? :confused:

Btw, Hows things Joe??? Believe it or not, I'm still hanging on these days and getting better according to the Docs. :wink:

Respectfully,
Henry

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 05-27-2011 04:11

Glad to hear things are going well Henry.

SSSOOO.... When do you want to go to work????

Have you accomplished some of the things you mentioned you wanted to do in a thread about a year ago? Some travelling and other items as I recall.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-27-2011 02:39 Edited 05-27-2011 02:47

We don't call it MAG here in the US, so that is why the other posters are goofing on You.

75% Ar, 25% CO2 this commonly used in the US for short circuit transfer with solid wire, and with metal cored wires and flux cored wires if the wire manufacturer suggests it.

75% Ar, 25% CO2 will require a reduction in duty cycle of the welding gun from the 100% CO2 rating. Off the top of My head, I suggest only using 75% of the CO2 duty cycle with this gas, I don't have an exact figure available right now.

This gas mixture was developed to maximumize the number of short cuircuits in a given time period with .035" steel solid wire, and reduce spatter compaired to 100% CO2.

75% Ar, 25% CO2 will not put as much heat into the work or penetrate as deeply as 100% CO2.

For reliable spray transfer with solid steel wire, 80% argon minimum is suggested.

For the others, I have 2 rolls of .035 steel MAG wire made and packaged in Korea, so the term is used there.

By js55

Date 05-27-2011 11:57

Dave,
What is MAG wire?

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-28-2011 01:27 Edited 05-28-2011 01:43

It is 70s-6 wire .035 diameter on a 12" spool, and works fine in My Dip Pak 200. If I showed You a piece of it You wouldn't know it from GMAW wire, BECAUSE IT IS THE SAME THING.

The package reads:

KC-28
MAG WELDING
SOLID WIRE
.035" 44LBS
[0.9mm] [20 KGS]

The brand is Kiswel, the logo is an elephant head with a circle around it.

Hey, look at this, they even have a website: http://www.kiswelweldingproducts.com/

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-28-2011 01:33

I don't understand why such a big deal is made about forign terminology, most likely used by a forigner, when most of Us can't spell, puncuate or use proper English grammer.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 05-28-2011 14:11

No kidding Dave

The fact is folks... The term "MIG" is non-standard... (read incorrect) in AWS terminology.

Other parts of the world.. and a big part of the U.S. are not married to AWS terms.

I used to be a real Nazi about perfect terminology... While I do think it is pretty important to have an understood language so that people don't say one thing and have the party listening hear another... I also realze we are dealing in a pretty diverse world and need to be able to listen to other folks terms as well.

MIG=MAG=MIG/MAG=GMAW=Wire Weld=Squirt Weld, etc... Lets not get all bent.

By Superflux (****)

Date 05-28-2011 18:08

Lawrence,

Very true, and, we also have to converse to the hands on the floor/field, or they act like your being all high and mighty with your "college talk". What gets me is when a Welder tells me he's "fixin to grab the MIG" (when he means Flux core) and make a certain weld. We DONT have a procedure for MIG on this current project. Then, the welder gets all P/O'd and torqued outa shape at me when I want verification that he is in fact going to use the FCAW. "You know I mean" is the response. Yes we do use MIG to make Bar-B-Q pits, bolt bins, repair broken office chairs (from oversized DOD Contractors!) and other doohickies around the compound.
The sad fact is, is that many welders don't know the difference between the two processes, and think gas is optional on the FCAW.

"Short Arc Welder", Micro Wire. Any others?

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-28-2011 22:24

Airco used Dip Transfer to describe short circuit transfer, probably had a copyright on it at the time. My 200 amp machine is a Dip Pak and the 300 is a Dip/Cor, it has a range for solid wire Dip trasnsfer and another for VertiCor [Dual Shield]. VertiCor was their trade name for FCAW-G.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 05-28-2011 22:01

I guess when I run the spool gun to weld aluminum with argon, I am MIG welding, standard term or not.

Airco claims to have developed the Metal Inert Gas [MIG] process in 1948, and a year later the NAVY was using it to weld aluminum ship hulls.

By js55

Date 05-31-2011 11:40

Dave,
I don't believe anybody was making a big deal of it other than the fact that as we utilize non standard terms (and I do this myself all the time) we run the risk of miscommunication as Lawrence stated and as Al always makes eloquently clear.
So, in answer to the question what is MAG wire you answered it by saying what I suspected was the truth; essentially nothing. Or more accurately, a marketing ploy.