Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Asme IX Classification of Welder Vs Welding operator
- - By Akahui (*) Date 06-21-2011 03:36
Hi Guys...

I am trying to get some sort of a answer as to what ASME IX specifies in regards to Welder vs Welding operator...

Any help you learned gents could give me would be much appreciated..


Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-21-2011 04:41
QW-100.2 In performance qualification, the basic criterion established for welder qualification is to determine the welder’s ability to deposit sound weld metal.

The purpose of the performance qualification test for the welding operator is to determine the welding operator’s mechanical ability to operate the welding equipment.

Qualification for welders: QW-304 Welders

Qualification for welding operators: QW-305 Welding Operators
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 06-21-2011 12:13
Do you have copy of, and have you studied ASME Section IX?
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-21-2011 12:20
I've got copies of IX and might have read it once or twice Jeff.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 06-21-2011 12:25
The question wasn't meant for you.  :surprised:
I would never question your preparation and due diligence.
Parent - By qcrobert (***) Date 06-21-2011 17:27

I highly recommend you purchasing the Practical Guide Book Series Volume 2, ASME Section IX Welder Qualifications -by Michael J. Houle (Casti Publishing Inc).

Just Google Casti Publishing for ordering information.
Parent - By qcrobert (***) Date 06-23-2011 17:34
Let me direct you to some paragraphs pertaining to welding operators as put forth in the Practical Guide I mentioned earlier.

QW-350 provides the welding variables for welders.

QW-360 provides the welding variables for welding operators.  Welding operators are further divided into welding operators or automatic equipment (QW_361.1) and welding operators of mechanical (mechanized) equipment.  QW-361 provides the list of essential variables for automatic and machine welding.

There is no easy answer to your question because the qualification of a welding operator of machine equipment is complex.  Also, a thorough analysis of each Code user's applications must be made to determine the very important distinctions of just what is a welder, a semiautomatic welder, a welding operator of machine (mechanized) equipment, and a welding operator of automatic equipment.

One unusual example of a welding operator of machine equipment is the operation of a GMAW spot welding process.  The gun is manually located and pressed against the work piece.  The welding operator then pulls the trigger, with everything preset.  The Section IX committee has ruled this as machine welding by a welding operator.  [Interpretation IX-92-43 has a nice explanation of this ruling.]

If you could provide more information about your particular process, maybe I and other forum members could give you an opinion.

Sorry that I could not be more specific to your original question,
Parent - By Stihlus Date 10-22-2019 06:58
Dear Gents,

I know it is a very old post but is useless to make a new one.
I have the same issue with welders and welder operator.
For example I have the welder operators qualified for AISI 4130 + Inconel 625 and the question is...I can use them to clad on A182 F22 + Inconel 625 without do again the qualification on this base material?

Based on ASME, if it is a welder operator is not important if you change the base material / filler.
On all the audits they will ask about the qualification but I suppose they are not really aware about this standard, they now about welders...

Thank you and regards,
- - By Akahui (*) Date 06-23-2011 00:17 Edited 06-23-2011 00:32

Thanks for your reply Jon, most helpful and appreciated as always,thank you also QCrobert

Mr Js55 I enjoyed your inference of lack of diligence and preparation,most amusing (not really helpful or welcoming but amusing none the less).In saying that however, Im sure a learned gentleman like yourself would be able to direct a plebiscite like me in an instant to the specific section and clause of ASME IX as below that I am searching for. Thank you in advance..

Shennanigans and humour aside,I am indeed however caught some what lacking in regards to the wording of my original question..

What I am searching for is not initially a question of qualification but more of general specification I suppose.

At what point does a welder become a welding operator? (in regards to ASME)

What level of automation in regards to the welding equipment being used justifies a change in the specification of a welder to a welding operator...

Does a welder who operates an LT7 SAW Tractor become a welding operator? or an AGW SAW Machine...

Does ASME specify as such in writing as above??

Thanks Guys..

Appreciate the feedback..

Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 06-23-2011 01:38 Edited 06-23-2011 01:40
Akahui, Js55 has a long history here with many scholarly posts.  I'm sure when he gets to be my age he'll get past the need to put plebiscites in their place and show them the path to enlightenment.  :yell:
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 06-24-2011 12:23
Ah yes, the path to enlightenment.

Zen Koan,
A plebiscite in his first day in the monestary asked Zen Master Dogen,
"Master, what is the path to enlightenment?"
Whereupon master Dogen, grizzled in years and wise beyond mere words, slowly rose from the floor, contemplatively gazes into the eyes of the young plebiscite and forthwith slaps him hard upon his face.
All the other monks nodded in approval. Ah yes, this is enlightenment.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 06-24-2011 12:50
I think the path to enlightenment in this case is quite simple.
Zen Master to student - " Gaze upon the index and all will be revealed"
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 06-24-2011 13:38
Zen Master Feder has experienced satori.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-23-2011 03:54
Allan, I don't think ASME defines a strict boundary in these issues.

I suppose you could say when knowledge of how to operate the equipment is more important than whether the welder has "skill" as mentioned in the previous post.

That said, Walt Sperko has some good discussion in his 2010 Addenda notes check

In his notes, he makes a specific reference to a welder shouting out from under the hood to "give him 5 more amps" (or something similar).  The guy turning up the amps ~ doesn't have to be a qualified operator.

The codes usually don't define down to the nth degree but expect people like us to be relatively knowledgeable in our fields and use some sound judgment in addition to code guidance / requirements.
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 06-23-2011 21:42
I don't have a copy of ASME Section IX, but unless ASME defines welder or welding operator different than AWS A3 the defininations of the terms gives us the boundries. Welder - one who performs manual or semi-automatic welding. Welding Operator - one who operates adaptive control, automatic, mechanized, or robotic welding equipment.
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 06-24-2011 04:30
Kia Ora !
It is really very basic and I think you must be looking in the wrong place.
QW 492

welder: one who performs manual or semi-automatic welding.
welding, manual: welding wherein the entire welding operation is performed and controlled by hand. (GTAW, SMAW)
welding, semiautomatic arc: arc welding with equipment which controls only the filler metal feed. The advance of
the welding is manually controlled. (GMAW, FCAW, SAW- hand held)

welding operator: one who operates machine or automatic welding equipment.
welding, automatic: welding with equipment which performs the welding operation without adjustment of the controls by a welding operator. The equipment may or
may not perform the loading and unloading of the work.
welding, machine: welding with equipment that has controls that are manually adjusted by the welding operator in response to visual observation of the welding, with the torch, gun, or electrode holder held by a mechanical device.

Here is the easiest response to your question (Courtesy - CASTI Guidebook to ASME IX)
A welder holds and has manipulative control of the welding torch or the electrode holder.
A welder becomes a welding operator when the equipment holds the welding torch.

Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-25-2011 16:30
Clear, concise, easy to understand. Good show Shane.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Akahui (*) Date 07-12-2011 21:35 Edited 07-12-2011 21:47
Thanks Guys...Fantastic..

Shane, most helpful as always....

js55... I will hit the "B" grade karate movies immediately to assist in my learnings moving forwards..Hee Yaaaa!

First move to learn, efficient block technique to counteract attempt at face slap!!

Appreciate the feedback guys...Keep well and busy

Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-13-2011 19:21
Zen Master Dogen say one just as likely to find enlightenment with finger in butt as avoiding slap in face.
Parent - By Akahui (*) Date 07-16-2011 22:42 Edited 07-16-2011 22:45

Not quite sure where to go with that one mate...I thought this was a family show..

Talk about Awkward..

Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Asme IX Classification of Welder Vs Welding operator

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill