pay rate for welding on trains

Date 06-21-2011 18:05

Even though $22 per hour is a good rate, the Tacoma/Seattle area is a expensive area to live in. You shouldn't sell yourself short on what you're skills are worth. Union welders in that area are getting around $40.00 plus benefits. If your skill set is strong i wouldn't hesitate to ask for $30+ an hour. If they say no then you start the negotiation process and try to end up where everybody feels goods about the deal. The procedure you described seems unusual.

By Tex

Date 06-21-2011 20:54

Weldstudent, it has been my experience that a weave is going out of style. When I first broke out most places that I worked didnt care whether you ran stringers or a weave. For the last fifteen years though it seems like nobody wants a weave. Most places now will tell you that the bead cant be over 1.5 x's the diameter of the rod itself (not rod and flux). I realize that some may disagree, but this has been my experience in industrial construction and running my own rig. You will be better off if you can gain proficiency in running stringers. Again just my experience and opinion. I wish you luck.

By qcrobert (***)

Date 06-21-2011 20:47

Personally I would know the rate of pay before driving to an interview.

By ctacker (****)

Date 06-21-2011 20:59

I would agree, About 7 years ago I applied for a railcar repair job in Tacoma, (could be the same job your interviewing for) before doing any tests I asked what the rate of pay was, I was told 10-12 an hour.
Saved me from wasting my time.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 06-26-2011 07:31

I wouldn't pay $22 dollars an hour to an applicant who admitted in an interview that he has never ran a vertical stringer.

You are an entry level welder... Sometimes a beginner can walk into 20+ per hour, but it's pretty rare.

Saying things along the lines of: "They taught us a different way at school" in an interview is not a good idea.   Just do what they ask, as long as it's safe...

Tell them about your school adventures after you have been hired.

Vertical stringers are common just about everywhere.   Your teacher did you a disservice by not teaching you both techniques.

By weldstudent (**)

Date 06-30-2011 16:28

it was durring the weld test i was asked if ive ever run a 7018 stringer vertical, saying no was not the best answer, but telling a lie was an even worse idea, the weld test went well. i am not very experianced as of yet, got out of school and had a few short time jobs, have done well in all of them, i did ask for $22 and setteled for $17, will start the job on july 5th. as for my teacher i dont think he did anything wrong with not teaching vertical stringers, as for here in WA i dont think WABO will allow a vertical stringer. might be wrong but looking a WPS all i have seen said use a weave, no stringers (on vertical SMAW welds).

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 06-30-2011 20:00

Congrats on the job!

Wage is darn good for entry level... It will rise quickly!

By aevald

Date 07-01-2011 07:17

Hello weldstudent, I'm probably going to start a firestorm here, but what the heck, I've done it before. WABO doesn't "officially" have WPS's for their weld testing, there, I said it. I do a considerable amount of testing for WABO and I'm on the opposite end of what you stated in this post. When I administer SMAW WABO's, or for that matter any of the other processes recognized and covered, I stipulate stringers. I do not force welders to come to me to test for WABO, if they disagree with my procedures or train of thought, they have the freedom to test elsewhere. My logic and insistence mainly has to do with operator skill and assuring that the welder has it. I do believe that stringers require more operator skill to be proficient in, so in the cases where stringers are stipulated in the work setting there are fewer questions as to the welders abilities to perform. Additionally, I do believe that moment connections for seismic applications in structural steel specify stringers or a description of bead widths/sizes that probably would not fall into a weave type of category, here again the terms can certainly be interpreted from many different perspectives or definitions.
The stringers/weaves issue has been debated to the point of delirium on this forum and likely many others. Most codes are rather vague on what they consider maximums for bead widths, some speak of width vs. rod diameter, some refer to depth/thickness or depth/width ratios of deposited weld metal, some discuss solidified slag in relation to the weld puddle or a lack of it, there are any number of statements or definitions to describe these variables. I believe materials/alloys have a great impact on being a variable, material science can certainly dictate the effects of heat input due to bead sizing or deposition with relation to time at temperature, travel speed, and other things that can impact the metallurgy of a sound and serviceable weld.
The bottom line to my response in the first place is to indicate that there are situations, allowances, requirements, needs, for both forms of bead applications(stringers, weaves) and you should be capable of performing both of them equally as well. Also, do not hesitate to ask whomever you are doing work for, which particular method they are expecting or requiring you to use or be proficient with. You will be working with WPS's on some if not all of the work that you end up doing in the future and should be able to handle this as the situations arise. That's my $.02 on the subject, good luck, congratulations on your new employment, and best regards, Allan

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 07-01-2011 15:44

Excellent explanation Allen. :smile:

I don't think you started a firestorm at all IMHO... Just a well laid out and concise explanation with respect to the reasons why you and other folks require stringers as well as why most companies do also with respect to achieving certain specific metallurgical requirements and finally, the importance of being proficient in depositing both techniques as well as inquiring about the type of technique required prior to testing or producing...

In other words, It's a pretty much straightforward explanation my friend. :grin:

Respectfully,
Henry

By aevald

Date 07-01-2011 21:08

Thanks Henry, and it's good to see you so actively involved in the forum these days, I have not been very active as of late. The OP is fortunate to have landed his present opportunity and should certainly be able to pursue and carry on from this point to a very successful future in the trade. It sounds like he is very intuitive and will be able to observe, learn, and understand the many different opportunities and challenges that lie ahead of him. Again Henry, great to be hearing from you and look forward to reading so much more of your replies and observations. Best regards, Allan

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 07-01-2011 23:16

Good to see both you guys more active again.

Hope all is going well for both of you.

I won't bother to add more to the line of this thread as I think Allen did a fine job. There are usually reasons behind the majority of restriction/requirements made while testing. Yes, some are simply at the 'whim' of some inspector or employer, but USUALLY there are reasons.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By weldstudent (**)

Date 07-03-2011 17:00 Edited 07-03-2011 17:02

Allen,
Thanks for the info, as stated I am still new to the trade, and all I know is what I’ve learned thus far, I have learned a lot, but I still don’t know jack, (not disrespecting my teacher, I learned a lot from him but he can’t teach everything), I will catch on quickly to any techniques new to me. I am very inquisitive and when I don’t know I need to ask, hence my handle. Even though I’m done with school I am never going to be done learning, I will always be a student, even when I’m teaching others.

Thanks to everyone for the information.

-Levi

By Blaster (***)

Date 07-03-2011 19:14 Edited 07-03-2011 19:57

Hi Allan

For our WABO testing we use the various predone WPSs you can buy from the AWS. None of the ones we use for testing have any limitations on bead width, only bead thickness. I don't specify weave or stringer, but I do limit the bead width at 1".

I don't require it, but I encourange and like to see the guys use 5/32" electrodes for SMAW on 1" plate tests. We test on 8" long plates and the welders have 4 1/2 hours to do two plates.

By Blaster (***)

Date 07-03-2011 19:55

Hi Allan

We do our 5G and 6G FCAW structural pipe welds without a weave. We also do our 3G structural welds with T-8 wires without a weave, but I would be amazed if an outfit doing the same joints with the SMAW process instead of FCAW could stay in business! :grin:

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 06-26-2011 11:41

I'm not sure how long you've been at the welding gig but if your just coming out of school and looking for entry level work $22 per hour might be a stretch, but then again I guess it will depend on your location. The suggestion to find out the pay rate before the interview would be a good idea. This way you would know a range. I know I've seen places that say for example, $12-16 per hour and based on your experience you could be low or high. Unfortunately I have never had any experience with the "range of pay" scenario. Out of the 12 jobs I've had since 1995-2008 I just walked in and told them what I wanted. When I was inexperienced I was low and taking what they would give, in 2006 for my last official employee job, I told them what I wanted per hour or I walk.

As far as running stringers I'm finding it hard to understand what the complication is that everyone is talking about. I think Lawrence said the "teacher failed to show both techniques". Personally I learned weave on my small plates(3/8) and when I did my overhead unlimited I ran stringers all the way out. Nobody showed me how to do it as they are just stringers, actually, you should have learned how to run stringers during your first week or so of welding smaw. Running stringers, in my opinion is the easy way out. Good luck on your interview!!!

By Blaster (***)

Date 07-03-2011 19:29

Hey Levi - congrats!

I remember taking similar tests for employment with GATX many years ago. They were 1" plate, 12" long. Tests included 2G, 3G, and 4G. Back gouged and back welded. The smallest electrode available was 5/32". It wasn't 7018 either. I don't remember now but I think it was 10018 or maybe 11018.

I was tore up with arc blow... worst I had ever encountered at the time. Back then I did not have a good understanding of arc blow or how to correct it. It came out fine in the end though... they looked great actually.

You shouldn't have any problems with 7018 stringers... you did plenty on 6G pipe and 6G square tubing. Once you have a good understanding of what you are looking at in the puddle and arc, you should be able to transition to any technique with any common process and be able to get dialed in for it with minimal fuss.