Corner to Corner Weld Symbol

By 99205

Date 09-13-2011 17:13

Fillet weld symbol.

By qcrobert (***)

Date 09-13-2011 18:57

Fillet weld symbol bottom side of arrow with CJP in tail of arrow.

QCRobert

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-13-2011 18:59 Edited 09-13-2011 19:02

TWI refers to your drawing as a fillet.

http://www.twi.co.uk/content/jk92.html

The link provides a drawing and text to back the fillet weld assertion. But no symbol :(

Nonetheless TWI is highly regarded.

Al just calls them "full open" corner joints ::::Snort

By waccobird (****)

Date 09-14-2011 09:12

Tyrone

You didn't mention who you were trying to describe the required welding information to, Shop or Detailers.

If I was the engineer wanting to show the requirements to attain the calculated strength of he member

Place a fillet weld symbol on the underside of the line for near side and write CJP in the tail

If you are the detailer conveying that information to the shop then information should be gotten from the shop as to how they are prepared to attain the CJP then detail accordingly.

Just my ¢¢'s

Marshall

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 09-15-2011 20:34

http://deltaschooloftrades.com/basic_joints.htm

M.G.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 09-16-2011 03:55

That is a good chart. I might have to use this info instead of that included in FC 2002. :grin:

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 09-16-2011 14:46

Thanks Dave.LMAO

By jbndt

Date 09-14-2011 04:49

"I need a full penetration weld, welded both sides."

Add, back-gouge in tail.

Of course, you will have to specify what size weld on the inside corner ... "Other Side".

Another option would be a "backing weld" on the "other side" and standard fillet weld on the "arrow side" with notes as needed in the tail.

Cheers,
jb

By Tyrone

Date 09-14-2011 11:43

I agree with everyone that the fillet weld symbol on both sides of the weld symbol with CJP in the tail is the most appropriate.

Years ago, my boss asked AWS technical review board (A2.4?) for their input. Their official response was: Double V groove weld symbol, CJP in the tail. This is now the norm. I agree that in the end I get what I need, but it looks weird.

Lawrence, thanks for the TWI reference, they are a good source of info.

Marshall, the information I put on the print is for the shop and detailers. I also create the PQR and WPS. Right or wrong, Engineering tells Production on how they are going to fabricate (that's a different issue).

JB, back-gouge I put in the WPS. Backing weld on the other side would work, but I need a minimum size.

Tyrone

By jbndt

Date 09-14-2011 16:58

DOH! moment ...

Seeing it drawn out, it becomes obvious! :red:

Cheers,
jb

(Edit: spellin')

By jbndt

Date 09-15-2011 19:00

Tyrone,

OK, I’m usually wrong at least once a day, but with further reflection, and a quick perusal of A2.4 … I’ll stick with what I wrote initially.
It seems to me ‘your’ symbol denotes some type of “edge preparation” … I.E. Bevels.

Now, if that’s what the ‘AWS technical review board ’ says to use, who am I to argue?

And, if it wasn’t crystal clear in your WPS (as none of us have seen it), I’d sure as hell be making a call to the EOR!

But, that’s just me… Trying to get it right the first time!

Oh, and next time I’ll check previous postings … RE: Tyrone, 04-07-2004 :red:

Cheers,
Jb

By Tyrone

Date 09-16-2011 11:24

Lol...I forgot I had posted many moons ago about the same question. I'll probably ask again in 2018. :lol:

The debate comes up now and again around here.

Jb, no prep required to the open corner (except for backgrinding to ensure CJP).

Tech board's response was a recommendation only. (They were probably divided on which to use). I still prefer double sided fillet weld symbol. Groove weld (Double V) just doesn't sound right. imo...

Tyrone

By Metarinka (****)

Date 09-20-2011 03:25

I suppose I would make the argument depending on fitness for use, ease of WPS and PQR qualification etc etc. A full open outside corner weld would always be considered a "groove weld" as it is "inside" the base material faying surfaces. The outside corner weld is considered a fillet as it is not inside the base material.

Personally I would call it a fillet weld from a mechanical standpoint because the outside corner is going to behave like a fillet in terms of strength normal or parallel to the base plates. Same goes for the inside corner weld. What it really boils down to is: will one of the clauses that is specific to fillet or groove welds come back to bite you? Such as qualification (fillet welders not qualified for groove).

By Tyrone

Date 09-20-2011 10:24

Thanks Metarinka.
I'm not worried about the Welders qualifications. Inspection, Engineering, Customers etc. are use to seeing open corners called out as a groove weld. I guess I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

Tyrone

By 803056

Date 10-08-2011 02:24

You might want to take a look at a more recent thread that is related to this post.

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=28960

Al

By Tyrone

Date 10-11-2011 11:36

Thanks for the head-up Al.
I'll try to help 70spoiler out.

P.S. - I actually know my "buttocks from a gopher hole". :wink:

But I agree with you,it took me a few years to get people around here to stop specifying open corners. It rears it's ugly head when old parts are ordered.

Tyrone

By 803056

Date 10-11-2011 13:43

That's great news Tyrone. I wouldn't want you to confuse the two. :wink:

Unfortunately weld design is often overlooked by many schools. Many designers never have the oppotunity to work on the fabrication floor and many others never have an opportunity to interface directly with the welders to find out what details work and what doesn't work.

Best regards - Al

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 10-12-2011 00:35

As long as the gopher knows the difference, He should be OK. :eek:

By 803056

Date 10-12-2011 03:05

Its all a matter of perspective. :razz:

Al

By Tyrone

Date 10-21-2011 10:26

Hi George,
PM sent to you.

You can also attach it to a new thread here and all the guys will try to help you out.

Tyrone

By George Garkusha Date 10-21-2011 11:35

Tyrone Thank you very much.

tack weld fillet or continuous fillet? (498k)

By Tyrone

Date 10-21-2011 14:09

George,
I've sent you a mark-up converting one using AWS symbols.
They are all 4mm fillet welds. Some are intermittent (lengths and centres specified).
Hope this helps
Tyrone