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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Cladding with inconel 625
- - By Barbaros (*) Date 09-16-2011 08:24
Hello guyz. We are making some cladding jobs on carbon steel and half moly tubes with inconel 625 by MIG. I am using %30 He %70 Ar mixture and 1 mm wire. Welding 3G position top-down %50 overlap on passes (3 mm cladding thickness) with water cooling inside tubes during cladding.

Penetration and thickness is ok, but surface apperiance is not satisfactory. My question is, if anybody has experiance on this subject can give me any advice to improve cladding quality?

Thank you all.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-16-2011 11:08
What exactly is unsatisfactory about the appearence?
Parent - - By Barbaros (*) Date 09-20-2011 09:49
First photo is our production (one of our best samples) and the second one is from a company called Uhlig

I guess you can get what I mean more clear now.



Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-20-2011 12:36 Edited 09-20-2011 13:12
The first one looks like it was deposited manually with a very poor method of metal transfer, and the second one looks like it was a mechanized application using optimal welding parameters attached to a bugo track or something to that effect...

Their have been some interesting progress in the application of this type of boiler tube cladding and it's now being applied with the use of industrial robots as well as mechanized systems...

Here's an interesting article or two...

The first one is from our old friend Ed Craig and I believe you'll find it interesting indeed:

http://www.weldreality.com/cladd%20welds%20by%20ed.htm

As well as this one:

http://www.weldreality.com/clad1.htm

Who is Ed Craig?

http://www.weldreality.com/who_is_ed_craig.htm

This article is from "Unifuse":

http://www.ommi.co.uk/PDF/Articles/98.pdf

Here's a Nuclear application for the  ID of pipe that has experienced FAC (Flow Accelerated Corrosion):

http://www.aquilex.com/pdf/wsi/wsi-cupus.pdf

Here's another "Unifuse" application from WSI on Coke drums:

Here's the main link to both Aquilex WSI & Aquilex WSI Nuclear services:

http://www.aquilex.com/landing/weldingservices/

Here's a cool repair inside a header by WSI:

http://www.aquilex.com/pdf/header-and-drum.pdf

Here's "Unifuse" boiler tube bent to spec after weld overlay:

http://www.aquilex.com/pdf/unifuse-tube.pdf

UnifuseĀ® 625 Overlay Protects Fluidized-Bed Reactor Shells:

http://www.aquilex.com/pdf/625-overlay.pdf

Here are the industries served:

http://www.aquilex.com/industries

http://www.api.org/meetings/proceedings/upload/Keys_to_Maintenance_and_Repair_of_Coke_Drums_Derrick_Rogers.pdf

Here is the "Conforma Clad" Infiltration brazed tungsten carbide spray coating process for super heater tubes in a coal fired power plant in West Virginia owned by AEP:

http://www.conformaclad.com/PowerGeneration/docs/advancederosion.pdf

Here's the direct link to Kennametal's "Conforma Clad" website:

http://www.conformaclad.com/

Application of "Unifuse" Overlay Tubes in the Convection Section of Waste-To-Energy Boilers:

http://www.seas.columbia.edu/earth/wtert/sofos/nawtec/nawtec11/nawtec11-1673.pdf

http://www.seas.columbia.edu/earth/wtert/sofos/nawtec/nawtec12/nawtec12-2214.pdf

These folks do some of this out in the field and are a well known company:

http://www.babcockpower.com/products/boilers-boiler-services/welding-technologies/products/weld-overlay

They also offer these services as well such as spiral tube overlays in house using Pulsed GTAW, boiler tubes, boiler pressure parts, etc...

http://www.babcockpower.com/pdf/bta-03.pdf

http://www.babcockpower.com/products/boilers-boiler-services/boiler-tube-co-of-america/products/spiral-tube-weld-overlay

This is what Ed Craig warned you about:

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/Pulsed-MIG-GMAW-inconel-cladding

Nickel alloy welding requirements for nuclear service From Special Metals Corporation who supply us with Inconel 625 & other nickel alloys:

http://pccenergygroup.com/PDFs/SMW/Special-Metals.pdf

Here's an interesting patent:

http://www.google.com/patents/about/6858813_Weld_overlay_system.html?id=4WgVAAAAEBAJ

Another interesting article:

http://www.thefabricator.com/article/arcwelding/one-size-does-emnotem-fit-all

These folks are pretty good from what I've been told:

http://www.globalfield.net/pages/services/fabrication.htm

These folks are pretty good also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zBoG2KhpVs

Here's some equipment to use for cladding/weld overlays on boiler tubes in the field by Gullco:

http://www.gullco.com/Carriage-and-Track.html

That's all for now... I'm tired and need a rest so, when I recover, I'll update.:eek::roll::twisted::wink::yell::cool:

Edit: Here's an interesting Government funded research study on Boiler Materials for Ultra super critical Coal fired power plants:

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/833923-ASosXD/native/833923.pdf

Maintenance an Efficiency Control of Thermal Power Plants... Another Gem:

http://www.fepc.or.jp/english/environment/asia-pacific/green_handbook_peer/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2008/10/20/chapter3_1.pdf

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 09-20-2011 17:09
Henry
I think you out did yourself Bud.
Thanks for that post and all the information within.
God Bless
Marshall
Parent - - By petty4345 (**) Date 09-21-2011 18:55
off subject but, In the second picture, is the 2 sided groove weld on the left hand side supposed to be CJP?
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-22-2011 03:35 Edited 09-22-2011 03:37
I may be incorrect in this case Petty4345 but, If I remember way back when I was a young pup fresh out of EB on a few different crews working on outages, and performing boiler water wall tube replacements, we usually encountered the carbon steel bar stock between the carbon steel tubes which made up the water wall with no bevel where the two sides of the bar stock met the O.D. of each tube...

This led me to believe that those joints were PJP initially, and I also believe that I noticed the welding symbol indicating a PJP abbreviation in the tail of the symbol on a print at one time or another yet, this was a long, long time ago so, I can only remember some details for some of the many jobs I worked on.:eek::roll::twisted::lol::wink::cool:

Excellent question I might add.:smile::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By petty4345 (**) Date 09-22-2011 13:58
Henry, thanks for the reply.
I'll admit that I have no knowledge of the requirements for boiler tubes, and have never welded any of them.
The welding on that part looks like someone put alot of effort and dollars into an automated or robotic system.
It "looks" like they were aiming for CJP, and something went wrong with that 1 weld. Looking at it closer, there is undercut on one edge, possibly indicating a process fluxuation, control issue of some sort, which could have happened for many reasons. Can't guess what, without knowing a whole lot more about it.
Nice piece though.
- - By Steve.E (**) Date 09-24-2011 02:31 Edited 09-24-2011 06:23
Hi buddy, mate we do quite a bit of this type of overlay work and i think your first sample is pretty typical of gmaw inconel , for my money the second was done using a gtaw process .
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-24-2011 06:31 Edited 09-24-2011 07:56
I hate to break it to you pal, but it's not GTAW process...

Here's the process... It's CMT which means Cold Metal Transfer, and it's a relatively new method of GMAW metal transfer developed by Fronius GmbH.:eek::roll::lol::wink::cool:

How do I know this for a fact? Well, let's just say that I find things and I found this which comes from the company that the OP mentioned in his second post:

"Weld metal overlay (cladding) High weld metal overlay quality with 10 UHLIG features:

    1) Use of 4-component inert gas He 30s - specially developed for UHLIG weld metal overlay

    2) Use of innovative CMT* welding technology (*Cold-Metal-Transfer) C/o Fronius

    3) Two parallel welding burners per rig

    4) Vertical-down welding position

    5) Double-layered weld metal overlaying

    6) Intelligent strengthening layer structure in the particularly corrosion-prone fin area

    7) Double blasting prior to weld metal overlaying

    8) Shrinkage taken into account

    9) Glass granulate blasting of the weld metal overlay surface

  10) Circulated water cooling

Results: Minimal Fe content and uniform overlay weld thickness.

In fact, here's the link to "Uhlig's" site:

http://www.uhlig.eu/schweissplattieren.asp

Look @ page two because that's where the above mentioned information comes from.

This is Fronius's Cold Metal Transfer process:

http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xchg/fronius_international/hs.xsl/79_9399_ENG_HTML.htm

Take a look at the video's in the web page and you'll see that CMT is similar to short circuit transfer except for one big difference... The control of wire movement as the short circuit occurs is what makes it different, and if you read the article explaining the process, you'll understand better how this method of transfer really works...

This page explains it better than I could, so I'll defer to Fronius instead.

http://www.gxcme.edu.cn/jpkc1/hj060522/weld12.6/lesson/lesson5/5_1_6.pdf

A good friend of mine named Stephan Engelhard who works for Fronius and used to frequently contribute here but, is currently workign on securing his Masters Degree in - oh I forgot whether it's Welding Engineering or material sciences with an emphasis on Welding Engineering, explained it all to me a few years ago when they (Fronius) first introduced the method of transfer process for commercial use... With this process, one can even join steel sheet to Aluminum sheet as well which is simply amazing to watch for an "old geaser" like myself.:lol::wink::cool:

Judging from some of the pics below, I do indeed see a slight bit of spatter yet, it's an amazingly huge improvement in cosmetically sound weld overlaying when compared to what is shown in the first picture from the Original Poster (OP), Barbaros.

Anywho, it's definitely NOT GTAW.:twisted::wink::cool: So enjoy the read and for Barbaros, I would suggest you contact Fronius USA to look further into this process or if it's more economically efficient, get in touch with UHlig Wel-Cor GmbH, or WSI/Aquilex's "Unifuse" weld overlay services... Here are their links:

http://www.uhlig.eu/index.asp?slcSprache=en&FID=&class=

http://www.aquilex.com/pdf/unifuse-tube.pdf

Well, that's it for me now... Btw, these pics are from Uhlig's website...I hope this clarifies any confusion and helps whoever needs it.

Respectfully,
Henry
- - By spgtti (**) Date 09-24-2011 06:59 Edited 09-24-2011 07:03
The first weld is definitely a manual application. Having worked for Aquilex(WSI) and Babcock(WTI) I've operated the proprietary automated pulse MIG machines that install these welds. Both companies are have spent millions of $'s and continue to do so to create overlay's with the appearance and chemistry of the weld in the second picture.

  From an operator perspective the second picture would be acceptable for a manual field overlay as long as it met dillution, deposition and inspection(PT & visual) requirements. Other than the lack of fusion shown in the pic.

  SSBN's pics look like a shop process I've seen which is MIG cladding with a TIG drywash.

  I also know that the membrane connections and repairs in the field aren't required to be CJP welds, those etched ones in the pics would be something to brag about on a job.:cool:
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-24-2011 08:23 Edited 09-24-2011 08:38
Please read the Original Poster's (OP) description of the second weld overlay picture which is a sample either given or shown to Barbaros by "UHLIG WEL-CO."

Then go down to the link I posted in my last post from UHLIG... It clearly shows that it's the CMT process of GMAW as written in the link on page 2... So, if you only read page 1, then you probably missed reading the description of the process specification UHLIG has on page two previously...

There's no GTAW "dry wash" done after the CMT layer is deposited although, I have also seen it done in the field first hand, and this process developed by both UHLIG and Fronius eliminates the need for a GTAW "dry wash which in itself is a significant savings in the costs to deposit the weld overlays.

Finally, CMT is a different animal when compared to traditional short circuit transfer of GMAW, and if you read the explanation of how it works in the .pdf's below, you'll understand what I'm talking about, and therefore comprehend why a GTAW "dry wash" is not required to achieve the weld profile, dlution, deposition pattern in order to meet the inspection requirements that are also shown in one or two of the pics in my previous post.

http://www.gxcme.edu.cn/jpkc1/hj060522/weld12.6/lesson/lesson5/5_1_6.pdf

http://www.digitalweldingsolutions.com/CMT.pdf

You are correct in noticing that they are shop weld overlays, and I too would like to know if they (UHLIG or anyone else for that matter) use a similar process (CMT) in the field for repairs in existing boilers.:lol::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Steve.E (**) Date 09-24-2011 13:05 Edited 09-24-2011 13:32
You may be right Henry however in all those nice pics I see a PMI unit but no  mig machine  :)
Parent - - By Steve.E (**) Date 09-24-2011 13:15 Edited 09-24-2011 13:44
ohh and bye the way we have a couple of fronius machiens , there good but not that good lol .. remember lincoln stt.. miller rmd.. fronius cmt.. a rose by any other name .
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-25-2011 06:14
If you can't see the Fronius power sources in both pictures #3 & #4 down from the first picture up top of my next to last post, then you need to seriously consider getting glasses or even updating your prescription if you are currently using glasses as visual aids in determining tiny details:yell::lol::eek::roll::twisted::wink::cool:

Better yet, use a magnifying glass instead.:yell::twisted::lol::eek::roll::razz::wink::cool:

Finally, in the first picture in the very same post... You mean to tell me, and everyone else in this forum that you cannot distinguish the very clear GMAW overlays on the O.D. of the water wall section shown??? I mean, look at the slight amount of spatter on some of the tubes which are clearly observable if you look for it carefully... A GTAW dry wash would have gotten rid of those for cryin out loud!:yell::twisted::eek::roll::lol:

So Steve E... Go and either get your  magnifying glass or get your eyes checked because, the GMAW-CMT process is clearly observable to myself as well as other folks in here also.:eek::roll::wink::cool:

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 09-25-2011 14:19
Steve..   I have a Fronius machine too.

If you think Fronius technology is just like Lincoln STT or Miller RMD... I really doubt you have ever spent any time with your Fronius equipment.
- - By Barbaros (*) Date 10-05-2011 14:07
Actually the thing I want to learn is which settings are the other cladding companies apply on their jobs with ordinary MIG. CMT is another stroy, yes I know Uhlig using that but I am looking for an alternative solution like Ed Craigs applications with cheap machines. Parameters like amper, voltage, wire feeding speed, gas components and flow rate etc.

By the way, can you tell me any other company names who performing good claddings in Germany?

Thank you.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-05-2011 15:30
Fronius is not just the best power supply in Germany... Nobody in the world can do what they do.

Ed, is very critical of Pulsed appilcations when they are not necessary...  But There are many applications where specitaly equipment can do a much better job... When things like dilution are an issue, traditional spray transfer is never going to produce like GMAWP or RMD, STT, or CMT,.

So what if a Fronius costs twice as much as the next machine?

One scrapped job in your business or a couple dozen hours of rework pay for a top of the line power supply.

I'm pretty sure you could get a Fronius rep to come in for free, and demo his equipment so you can see for yourself the results and compare them to typical equipment.

Getting nickel alloys to run vertical down with traditional spray transfer is always going to be problematic.
Parent - - By Barbaros (*) Date 10-11-2011 06:51
I mean the companies where make cladding jobs in Germany. Can anybody advice me some adresses?
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-11-2011 07:25
Here's the link to contact Uhlig Welcore:

http://www.uhlig.eu/kontakt.asp?FID=2&class=welcor-kontakt

Here's the link for Aquilex WSI:

http://www.aquilex.com/company/contact-us

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Barbaros (*) Date 10-11-2011 13:55
Thank you but Aquilex seems does not have manufacture facility in Germany. I am looking some places in Germany to visit.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-11-2011 21:07 Edited 10-11-2011 21:14
True but, they do have facilities in both Poland and The Netherlands...
So, you should still be able to have their services available close by to you if they offer better services than Uhlig...
Make sure you read the contacts link I posted earlier in detail.:yell::eek::roll::grin::lol::surprised::wink::cool:

For example:

"Europe: Aquilex Welding Services, B.V., Marconiweg 16, 3225 LV Hellevoetsluis, The Netherlands, Ph: +31 (882) 784-539,
Em info-intl@aquilex.com"

"Aquilex Welding Services Poland Sp. z o.o., UI. Kozienicka 97, 26-600 Radom, Poland, Ph: +48-48-385-5056, 24/7: +31 (882) 784-539,
Em: info-intl@aquilex.com"

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Barbaros (*) Date 10-12-2011 07:10
The fact is, I don't need their service :) I only want to have a visit to their facilities, examine their job and take some information if possible. We are already manufacturing our own claddings anyway.
So, thats why I am asking for some good cladding companies in Germany.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-12-2011 22:19
Well then, here's mud in you eye!:yell::twisted::roll::eek::lol::grin::wink::cool:

Henry
Parent - - By fschweighardt (***) Date 10-13-2011 20:08
Companies usually give away the details of the process that makes them money, don't they?
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-13-2011 20:51
Right!

Not often.

I have seen Lincoln, Fronius and several of the filler metal giants willing to share data pretty openly.  But NOT manufacturers.

If you were in the U.S. I would suggest involvement in AWS section meetings in regions that do that type of work... *That* is a good way to get in the door of the competition with total honesty.  Maybe you have something similar there other than Essen expo?
Parent - By Barbaros (*) Date 10-14-2011 06:28
I am not willing to be an industrial spy :) just want to have look their jobs once over lightly.
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 10-13-2011 19:49
You might try Metso. I think they have a tube shop in germany as well as sweden. I know some guys from there North Carolina shop flew there to there main over seas shops to get trained on the very subject you seem to be having trouble with.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-14-2011 01:06
Good lead Hillbilly.:grin::smile::wink::cool:

These are the folks who developed the technology for Metso, and they're now owned by AREVA of Sweden...

How did I find this out? I first went to the Metso site and did a search in the energy section on "Overlay Welding" where I found a .pdf where it mentions
these folks from AREVA known as: Uddcomb Engineering AB, a Swedish company subsidary of AREVE NP of Germany...
I then did a separate search on them and found that they are now owned by AREVA NP.

http://www.metso.com/MP/marketing/Vault2MP.nsf/BYWID2/WID-090311-2256E-D9FAA/$File/CPDU_R_2075_182-02.pdf?openElement

http://search.metso.com/search?site=Metso&client=Metso&proxystylesheet=Metso&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf8&ie=utf8&q=overlay+welding&submit.x=6&submit.y=17

http://www.uddcomb.com/process_industry/project.php?id=18

Now, if you want to contact them, you could check this and the link below this one out:

http://www.uddcomb.com/contact/

http://www.uddcomb.com/news/news.php?id=50

However, I'm no longer going to play this game with you, and do your research for you since any 16 year old could find this information out for you!:mad::evil::eek:
So understand this Barbaros, you're on your own!:yell::eek::twisted::roll:

Henry
Parent - By Barbaros (*) Date 10-14-2011 06:42
:grin: Thank you Henry :smile:

I am also making my own research of course and already found many of this informations before. But collecting differenet ideas from different professionals here is harmless anyway. Thank you all who made 16 yo level searches for me so far :wink: You helped a lot.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Cladding with inconel 625

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