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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / The "G" Factor
- - By MOTYEN69 Date 11-28-2002 13:34
I've worked for a major steel producer for the past 31 years as a millwright. Several years ago the company implemented its own training center to train their non welding craft personel to weld.For the millwrights it was a seven week 4 G session with an overhead and flat open root bend test.The pipefitters and iron workers had a 5G pipe open root bend test.My concern is that I along with the other millwrights are now being put on jobs that require more qualified welders(cracks on the blast furnace bussle pipe,Blast furnace stoves and hydraulic pipes).We were told when the training began that we were not to weld pressure vessles or pipe, now all has changed when new area management arrived.I'm concerned about my safety as well as my co workers and for the other employees that will be working around these welds.Is there a state or federal safety guideline on who can weld on pressure vessels and pipe, even if it's done in house? Tom,Steubenville,Ohio
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 11-28-2002 17:10
The state usually adopts laws from the National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors as far as ppressure vessels go. I don't know if there are any Non-Code states left.

The american national standards institute has various codes that address repair of piping and also indicate how it is to done properly.

I would be concerned with not only the quality of the welds but what materials are used, are the welds inspected, is stress relief being done when required, is the epiping properly tested after repairs etc.

The ANSI B31 codes address the requirements for various type of piping including welder qualification, inspection and testing, design, and other aspects.

OSHA has a very good search engine for their site. And you may be able to find something.

Here is a 29CFR 1910 section on Pressure vessels http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9823

The OSHA Site is at http://www.osha.gov.

Have a nice day

Gerald Austin


Parent - By Wildturkey (**) Date 12-02-2002 13:00
Just to let you know that South Carolina is not a coded state. Maybe one day we will get with the program before someone gets hurt.
Parent - By Niekie3 (***) Date 11-28-2002 18:27
Hi Tom

I am not from America so I may be missing something, but I believe that if you are "coded" and you are performing welding as part of a quality system (which will ensure the correct inspection and NDE is applied, the personnel are welding on work they are coded for while following qualified welding procedures etc. etc.) then things should be OK from a legal and safety point of view.

I am just concerned that you have doubts about your own welding ability, because this uncertainty could lead to mistakes. (Self fulfilling prophecies.) If I was you, I would perform more test welds and have them tested, untill I became confident that my welding was in fact good enough.

I am not sure if there are political or union issues here, but I would say that it is always a good thing when one is given the opportunity to broaden your skills base. As such, I would embrace the new role and give it my best shot. Some time in the future it may just be the edge that gives you the dream job over somebody else. In the mean time, it may just mean that you will have to work harder.

Hope this helps

Regards
Niekie Jooste


Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 11-28-2002 19:25
As said by Neike . Your craft has nothing to do with it. If your organization already has a system in place for welding pressure containing components and the welders have been tested and certified in accordance with those requirements then thats fine. However if people "regardless of craft" are welding without proper certification/qualification then thats a problem.

If I am a laborer and can pass the test even if I have only welded in High School, as far as codes are concerned that is fine.

The various codes indicate what qualified ranges a person can weld. If for instance you only welded a 4G plate 1/2" thick with a given process and you are required to weld a 10" Schedule 160 Pipe groove weld than you are not certified.

The various codes and standards indicate what a person is qualified to weld on. If your plant complies with those codes, and your qualified then all should be fine.

In my first response I may have overlooked some of your question.

Gerald Austin

Parent - - By MOTYEN69 Date 11-29-2002 12:52
Gelrald,
The answers to the questions in your response are no,no and no.I was tested in flat and overhead openroot plate,no pipe test.I have no issues with welding with in the scope of my training but we were not trained to weld pipe or pressure vessles nor were we ever tested for such.Thank you for your response and I will research the sites you posted
Niekie,
I nor my co workers are coded ( certified ?). There are other craft within the plant that are trained to weld pipe and pressure vessles.I do have confidence in my ability to weld as long as it is within the scope of my training.I agree with you in regards to broadening my capabilities and will seize any opportunity to upgrade my training.Yes there are union issues here, but my concern is for safety.
Thank you all for your input.I will research and inform you of my results.
Tom
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 11-30-2002 01:46
If we used ASME Sec IX--

The flat and overhead plates would qualify you to weld flat rolled pipe groove welds 2-7/8" diameter and above. You could also weld the flat and overhead sections of 24" and above pipe and fillet welds in the flat horiz and overhead positions.

That is of course ony if the plate and its subsequent testing was performed in accordance with a code and properly documented. No further "training" would be required.

Have a nice day

Gerald Austin
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com
Parent - By Niekie3 (***) Date 11-30-2002 08:50
If your employer is expecting you guys to perform welds for which you were not coded, on pressurized equipment, your employers are breaking the law. Maybe they are less worried about people's safety, but I generally see a good response when you point out to people that they are breaking the law and could be prosecuted.

Get an inspection authority on your side and let them (your employers) understand the consequences of their actions.

Regards
Niekie Jooste
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 11-29-2002 02:13
There are state laws governing boiler and pressure vessel safety. This would also address qualification of welding procedures and welders. For your state of Ohio, the website is:

http://www.com.state.oh.us/ODOC/dic/DICBOILERS.htm

The answer to your question may be in the link to Laws, Regulations and Guidelines on their home page.

Marty
Parent - - By MOTYEN69 Date 11-30-2002 13:56
Gerald,
You make an interesting point.Are you stating that I can weld at the 6 oclock and 12 oclock positions and not the vertical positions between on pipe?
Niekie,
Sounds as if you were in this situation before.Some people think a person can weld anything just because they can strike an arc.You have Picasos and then you have finger painters like me. lol
Thanks for the site Marty.

Have a good day,

Tom
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 12-01-2002 00:46
I don't have a code with me but my memory tells me 15 degress either side of top dead center and bottom dead center. Its not practical but I thinks thats what it says.

You could also roll a pipe such as in a positioner.

G Austin
Parent - - By welder_guy2001 (***) Date 11-30-2002 22:37
i agree w/ all of the above replies. and just to be even more on the safety side, I'd want to be qualified in the 6G position instead of just the 5G, just 'cause you never know what you're gonna be welding on. Pipe certifications will qualify you for welding plate, but plate certs will not qualify you for pipe. also, there are LOTS of other certs within pipe welding-- uphill open root, downhill open root, uphill backing ring, 6GR (welding in 6G w/ a restriction ring obstructing you from direct access to the weld), welding high strength pipe, alloy pipe, TIG open root, flux core, etc. I think I'd be very afraid if I worked where you're working!
Parent - - By MOTYEN69 Date 12-01-2002 14:06
Thanks guys for your very informative replies.Safety seems to have gone to the back burner in the past several months with a few of our area managers.I feel I have enough facts to justify my arguments pertaining to safety.

Fraternally,

Tom Ney
Parent - By Weldmedic (*) Date 12-11-2002 11:53
Tom,

The document you need to see that governs construction of blast furnace components is AISE Technical Report No 27. This is the code your components are covered by. Actually for repairs its 27R. These components are treated a little differently in the fact that they are not code stamped vessels or piping because they do not operate at elevated pressures. Actually I have a copy at my office but will not be there till next week. If memory serves me correctly AWS D1.1 is the governing welding code for your work. If you need any other info just post or email me at Doddwelds@aol.com

Steve
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / The "G" Factor

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