Question about AWS D17.1certification

By JLZAJARA Date 09-29-2011 15:32 Edited 09-30-2011 11:24

Hi! I´ve just discovered this forum crowed fo experts and maybe someone here could please clarify me two doubts I have. :cry:

DOUBT #1.- To certificate most of welders I use to prepare two differenent specimens: sheet 2F and tube 5G. With these specimens I thought that all my positions were covered, but recently I realised about somethingh that seems not to be OK in my selection. I´ll try to summarize clearly:

Table 4.3 in AWS D17.1:2001, or table 5.3 in AWS D17.1:2010, includes a note explaining that sheet welds do not qualify tube welds if OD is lower than 1 in. The point is that this note, (2) in AWS D17.1:2001 and (c) in AWS D17.1:2010, is only included in the Tube Groove column, not in the Tube Fillet column, so I always thought that this note was not applicable for Tube Fillet certification and all of my tube fillet certified positions had the typical range (above OD welded, which is 1/2"). My doubts appeared when read the statemet of AWS D17.1:2001, 4.3.3.1.(3), or AWS D17.1:2010 5.3.3.1.(3) "Qualification for tube welding on tubes of 1 in. OD or less requires qualification of a tube weld. The tube weld qualification is for any tube size equal to or larger than the OD of the tube weld"....

So, I have two possibilities, if 4.3.3.1 is mandatory over the table I have a problem, but if the table rules I´m OK. What do you think??? :roll:

DOUBT #2.- Qualification reports received after testing sheet fillet welds (1mm thickness), always state penetration partial. I would like to know the consequences for the welder certification scope. Does this mean that this welder cannot weld parts (fillet) requiring complete root fusion? If so I would have a problem with some customer parts which require complete fusion in the root (fillet) if angle is bigger than 105º if aluminum, or bigger than 90º for stainless steel. :eek:

Hope someone here can answer my doubts.

Thanks a lot in advance!!

José Luis

By JLZAJARA Date 10-03-2011 07:00

Anyone can help me? I would like to weld new specimens if needed prior to Nadcap audit :eek:

By 99205

Date 10-03-2011 10:10

Are you an Inspector?

By JLZAJARA Date 10-04-2011 08:57

No, I´m just a quality engineer in charge of certifying welders according to AWS. I prepare the work orders and specimens for the welders, and send outside to be tested in approved labs. I´m not far experienced in welding issues and this is why I post here. :red:

By Ringo

Date 10-04-2011 10:30

Table 5.3 rules,as far as partial penetration,it has to meet figure 5.12 B note 1.

By JLZAJARA Date 10-04-2011 14:55

Thanks a lot Ringo for your post. Then, according to your response, if a welder welds a 2F Sheet gets qualified to weld 1F and 2F tubes, but I do not have any diameter to have a minimum reference. This is why I was almost sure that the minimum qualified should be 1in OD, and that note (c) "A sheet test weld qualifies for tube welds 1 in OD or greater" was missed in the last column. If table rules and the note does not appear in the last column, which is the supposed minimum diameter to apply for these 1F and 2F tubes? :confused:

About the partial penetration, lab reports states that results comply with AWS requirements but do not detail penetration measurements. I understand then that we comply with the requirements included in the figure you mention when they write partial penetration.

Thanks a lot again for your help :lol:

By Ringo

Date 10-04-2011 15:07

Minimum qualification would be 1 in.

By JLZAJARA Date 10-04-2011 15:50

Ok, thanks Ringo. I wrote the right value then. :lol:

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 10-04-2011 15:12

What is the exact scope of your customer requirements regarding full penetration in fillets?

Many OEM's have requirements that are greater or different than D17

Think about This....... Your customer can require anything they want right? If they ask for full penetration even on materials thinner than 0.063 and *NONE* of your welders have proven that they can even do this, you may want to consider approching your counterpart at the OEM and getting clairification from them.
.
I've been hesitant to post on this thread for that reason... I think your customer is going to give you an answer with more authority than you can get in an internet forum.

By JLZAJARA Date 10-04-2011 16:03

The customer requirement included in fusion welding documentation is complete fusion in the corner if angle is bigger than 105º for aluminum parts, or bigger than 90º for stainless steel ones. .
Thickness is not detailed so this requirement if applicable for all of them.
Actually, customer has its own certification standard, which differs in some points from AWS D17.1, but my boss got a concession from the customer to certify welders under AWS D17.1. So, in this case if I comply with AWS I comply with the customer.

As you write I´d better ask for a clarification to my customer in order to avoid future misunderstandings.

Thank you very much for your explanations Lawrence :lol: