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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Lip weld?
- - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-13-2011 16:20
Hello!
I'm an interpreter from Russia. I usually work with technical texts, and very often in the area of welding.

Here is a question:

I have a flange and on its rim there is a little ridge on both the parts of the flange. This ridge is intended to melt for making a weld to seal the flange.
What do I call this weld?
I was told  it's an autogenous seam weld.
Or is it a lip weld?

Another case:

I have a tube and another tube of smaller diameter in it. They are so placed that their ends coincide to make a weld on them.
What do I call this weld?
I was told  it's a seam weld.

Third case:

There is bellows and I have to weld it to a stem and body of a valve.
Will it be correct to name these welds "lip welds"? Or is it a butt weld?

Could you please explain to me what a lip weld is?

Thank you
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-13-2011 18:18
Jack,  Welcome to the forum!

I think you will get your help..

But before we start providing answers, it may be important for you to detail for us exactly which welding standard you are working with.  The AWS symbols and ISO symbols have some differences in terms.

Drawings, sketches or pictures will also help avoid confusion.

Again welcome.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-13-2011 18:30
Welcome to the AWS Welding Forum!!

I'm with Lawrence.  We could probably shoot you answers that would 'pretty well' be correct, but to make sure they are perfectly accurate to your situation we could use a little more information. 

You may want to look over publications available through this organization at the 'Bookstore' dept and order a copy of A2.4 Standard Symbols for Welding, Brazing, and NDE as well as a copy of A3.0 Standard Welding Terms and Definitions.  Those will line up with many different codes at least to be well understood by those needing to know.

But, for immediate help with the three current questions- Code worked to, sketches and/or drawings of the connection point in question.

Maybe one of our overseas members will see this and know what you are up against as well and speed things along.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 04:26
Thank you!

I've never thought it would be that complicated!
All those symbols to be used and sketches provided...
I guess our guys work to ISO standards, because I learnt about the AWS only yesterday and had never heard of it before.
I can't provide drawings. If my wordings are hard to understand, it's sad. But this is all I have.

I'll look through the 'Bookstore' dept you told me about and see what I can do.

Well, at least, could you give me a definition of a lip weld?

Thanks again.
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 10-14-2011 07:04
AWS  A3.0 Standard Welding Terms and Definitions does not have a definition for the term "lip Weld".  By what you are describing, I would say, autogenous weld would be the correct terminology.
Parent - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 08:04
Thank you!:smile:
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-14-2011 10:56
Jack8rkin

I would like to withdraw my answers to your query as I don't have enough information to have properly given them. LoL

What welding Process or Process's are involved.

Marshall
Parent - - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 11:35
I suppose the guys use a tungsten electrode, argon shielding and sometimes welding wire. (Sorry, I'm not a specialist in that; just write it all descriptively, without abbreviations and all...;
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-14-2011 11:48
Jack8rkin

GTAW (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding) is what it is called.

TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas welding) is a nonstandard term for it or an old term that was used when the gases for the process were all inert.

Good Luck

Marshall
Parent - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 13:13
Thanks for the info!
- - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 08:05 Edited 10-14-2011 08:13
Just posted an image.
I got one on the Internet and it is similar to what I described.
Sorry, it looks too big.

Got no idea about the symbols on the callout.
My weld is encircled in red and named "A".
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-14-2011 08:56
Jack8rkin

The weld shown and indicated appears to be a 2 mm fillet weld

Good Luck and Welcome to the American Welding Society Online Forum

Marshall
Parent - - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 09:46 Edited 10-14-2011 09:50
Thank you!

But what if the weld is like the one I attached below?
It's not a fillet weld, is it?
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-14-2011 10:45
Jack8rkin

If I was describing what I am seeing through the blue indicator lines the one depicted would be a Square Groove weld the joint configuration Butt Joint and would be classified as a PJP (Partial Joint Penetration weld).

Just my ΒΆΒΆ's

Marshall
Parent - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 10:55
Ok. Thank you! You just classified the weld in all aspects.
- - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 09:53
Just found a drawing of the weld I have to name.
There is also shown a milling machine to cut out this kind of weld.
What I can say, is that this kind of weld is sometimes cut off to replace the equipment it connects.

See the pic below.
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-14-2011 10:48
Jack8rkin

Again it would appear to be a PJP the weld would be a Butt Joint and the Joint configuration a Single V-Groove

Good Luck

Marshall
Parent - - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 11:00 Edited 10-14-2011 11:06
Thank you again!
So the difference is only in the bevels...
Is there a term that you use to denote a weld that is an additional means to fasten parts (in additoin to bolts or studs) and to seal the joint.
Is there a single term for that at all?
I'm beginning to suspect that what Russians use is a sort of professional welding slang!
:eek:How wil I translate it all just in one word????:confused:
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-14-2011 11:09
Jack8rkin

AWS A3.0 Standard Welding Terms and Definitions gives the definition of Seal Weld as "Any weld intended primarily to provide a specific degree of tightness against leakage".

FYI

Also according to AWS A3.0 Standard Welding Terms and Definitions seam is a nonstandard term when used for a brazed,soldered,or welded, joint

Thank You for this exercise Jack :cool:

Marshall
Parent - - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 11:31
Thank you!:grin:
I heard about this term before, I mean "seal weld", but still I have doubts.
Is it always made on a ridge?
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-14-2011 12:07
Jack8rkin

No it is anywhere required to stop leaks whether in or out.

It is used for sealing all joints from all kinds of things, like in sending parts to Galvanization where cleaning chemicals can seep into joints and do not completely exit before going into the dip and causing chemical reactions and or lack of galvanization in that area, where joints are subject to moisture entering and not able to exit causing corrosion...

Marshall
Parent - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 13:15
Thank you!
Parent - - By Tyrone (***) Date 10-14-2011 11:12
Hey Jack8rkin,
You don't need to explain on a drawing why the weld is needed (additional means of fastening).

In the "tail" of the weld symbol, you can make note that it is a seal weld.  This would mean that it needs to be leak tested.

Hope this helps
Parent - - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 11:28
Oh, no -- no. I'm not speaking about a specific drawing.
It's just a talk in general. I will translate it orally and also in writing and only sometimes in drawings.
I'm trying to find an appropriate term and just collecting the info to hit the "bull's eye".
What I said above is just a description of what I heard about this weld on the Russian side.
They do not specify penetration, or beveling or anything. Rather they draw a pic and show a ridge on the rim of a flange and call it "oos" in Russian.
So there is a single term for that weld in Russian "oosovy shov". Very simple -- problem to translate...:confused:
Parent - By Tyrone (***) Date 10-14-2011 11:51
Hey Jack8rkin,
If it has the machined bevels, I would stick to calling it a groove weld.

If it didn't have the machined bevels, I would call it an edge weld.

Tyrone
Attachment: EdgeWeld.jpg (40k)
Parent - - By PipeIt (**) Date 10-14-2011 11:53
http://www.metallicfusion.com/images/SymbolsDefinitions/880.jpg

Jack this may help also.
Parent - - By PipeIt (**) Date 10-14-2011 11:56
Whoops that was just an image off the site here is the Linc

http://www.metallicfusion.com/symbols_and_definitions.htm
Parent - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 13:22
Thank you!
- - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-14-2011 13:16
Thank you all guys for the ton of info you gave me!
That helped a lot!
Thanks a ton!
Parent - - By ravi theCobra (**) Date 10-14-2011 17:35
Is that a short ton  or a long tonne  ?
Parent - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-15-2011 07:38
Neither! Metric ton! (We use the metric system here).:lol:
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-15-2011 01:54
In one of Your first posts You mentioned "autogenous" weld. this term "autogenous" means that the weld is made without the addition of filler, I don't know if this is a standard term with regards to the codes, but it is used from time to time.
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 10-15-2011 06:45 Edited 10-15-2011 08:21
"Autogenous weld" is a standard term, AWS A3.0:2010.
Parent - By Jack8rkin (*) Date 10-15-2011 07:37
Ok, thank you.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Lip weld?

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