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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / solid square bar issues
- - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-28-2011 01:58
Welding up some railing using 1" solid square for posts. Using tig as my wimpy mig wont cut it. Anyhow, welding this and I'm getting pinholes, acts like when wind blows out your shielding gas. Went to a standard mild steel tube and runs a perfect bead but on this solid its acting horrible. Guess I'll call supplier tomorrow and find out what this stuff is.
Anybody run across this? Just trying to figure out the why.

Oh, tig, 2% thoriated, argon, 1" carbon steel.......
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-28-2011 02:22
Are You adding filler? it may settle down if You get some de-oxidizers in there.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-28-2011 02:28
yeah, 3/32" ER70. Add filler and it just bubbles and pops and looks like arse. Like I'm dealing with 100 year old wrought iron or something, not that I've ever tried to tig weld wrought iron but this is a first for me. Got a new bottle of gas today and suspected that at first then tried it on a piece of regular square tube laying in the shop and it worked fine. I actually ground it down pretty deep, 1/16" maybe and started to build it up to get a smooth finish and it seemed like it laid in there but when I ground it down it was pinholed again on the surface. Flipped it the bird and called it a night, get down in the shop about 3:30-4am and give it another go. Think I might just break out the ol' 7018!!!! Still want to figure out the why though.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-28-2011 03:11
Is that a gas welding rod or a TIG rod? I have come to find out that there is a difference. In the old days We used whatever was around and didn't know any better. I think 70S-2 or 70S-6 would be the ones to try.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-28-2011 04:29
Dave is right about the S-6 being the best.

But if your steel is old it is prolly "unkilled" and may never want to GTAW very well.

A last resort might be to try some 309 if you have it laying around.

Another idea... If your mig doesn't have the power to do the job with solid wire, you still might find succsess with self shielded FCAW.. Those little rolls of E71TGS can do some impressive stuff.

And yes...  I would bet that SMAW would work better on that old stuff than Tig

Keep us posted
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-28-2011 09:27
Unfortunately this 1" solid square is only a few months old. Bought it from my steel guy around August I guess. Running the 70 s-6 too. A friend and I were talking about this job, little job, doing it for less than I should(real nice older lady) and he said something like little jobs like this with little profit and you'll be fighting it the whole way.....guess the fight is on!! Time to fire up the ol' Miller thunderbolt in the shop I guess!!
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-28-2011 12:00
Ok, update. VERY Clean material, 1/2" square and 1/4"x1" flat, doing the same thing. Shielding gas is flowing but acts like it's not turned on. Checked connection at machine and tight(should be evident by the flowing gas right?).

I'm wondering if this is some "bad gas"?? Machine worked fine the other day with the almost empty bottle and now that I've swapped tanks it's all fudged up. Gonna call Airgas today and inquire.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-28-2011 12:49
It does happen.  We have gotten bad gas 3 or 4 times from a previous supplier in the 10-12 years we used them down here in AZ.  Don't know who they had filling their bottles for them, but they weren't doing a good job.

Also, make sure your pressure isn't too high.  That can cause problems as well creating extra turbulence around the weld pool.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-28-2011 14:10
Yeah, out of desperation I cranked the gas up to about 30 just for giggles and it was blowing the already funky molten metal out like an arc gouger!! Everything is the same as when I used it at the beginning of the week except the new tank. Tried it on some 1/2" to 1/4" x 1" flat and was doing the same thing so that's when I started thinking it may be gas related as the 1/4 x 1 was bought near the beginning of the year. Gas set at 20, just like at the beginning of the week. Time to call Airgas and inquire.....
Parent - By rlitman (***) Date 10-28-2011 14:20
Double check your lines for a leak.
With gas flowing, a leak can suck air into your lines.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-28-2011 14:39
Get a scrap piece of stainless and simply strike a 20 amp GTAW arc with the torch perfectly perpendicular... Hold the arc "without" a puddle for about 15 seconds and then feather down the arc with foot pedal till off, keeping the torch perpendicular for a 10 second post flow...

If the tungsten is black or the stainless is discolored ... Bad gas or a sucking leak.
Parent - - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 10-28-2011 18:39
Nice tip Lawrence! Gonna have to remember that one. Had to go to town so carried bottle with me and swapped it out. Everything back to normal now. That was weird, usually only get bad gas from beans!

Thanks to all for the help!
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-29-2011 02:20
One of My friends got a cylinder of "bad" gas once. He never found out exactly what the problem was, contamination or mis-marking ???
Parent - - By rcwelding (***) Date 10-29-2011 14:33
Lawrence where do you come up with this stuff.  Every time I log on you have some tid bit of info that is just clever..!   Thanks for sharing.  I dont Tig much but Im going to store that tid bit of info for down the road some day..!
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-29-2011 14:53
It's called YEARS OF EXPERIENCE ! There is NO substitute
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-29-2011 15:23
Cactus....you're right. That cat knows his GTAW. :cool:
Parent - By ibeweldingsum (***) Date 11-01-2011 23:28
AMEN!!
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 10-29-2011 18:29 Edited 10-29-2011 18:33
Cactus has a point.   And thanks for the nice words Dwayne.

Just remember that "years of experience"

.     = Years of things going terribly wrong, and being left alone to figure out how to make it work.

Edit;

The root of "troubleshooting"  unfortunatly is trouble and not shooting.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / solid square bar issues

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