By 464238 
Date 11-04-2011 00:49
Edited 11-04-2011 00:57
If you would list the qualifcation P#'s and F#'s I believe it would be easier to answer your question.... I got kind of lost on your explanation. Qualification on P1 is qualified on several P#'s per ASME Section IX, For Example Performance qualification on P1 base material with an F4 is qualified for P1 thru P15F, P34 and P4X and F1 thru F4. (QW-350)
Hi zinnan
I thought I would give a short run down on how to use the ASME IX code, (for a beginner) to help get you on your way. Let me know if I am telling you things you already know!
ASME IX can be confusing if you do not understand the "rhythm" of the code. If you follow the rhythm, then it is one of the easier welding codes to use. (I use the term rhythm, rather than logic, because it just makes it sound funkier! Besides, there is never a 100% logic to anything. Somewhere along the line there always seems to be a leap in logic, so let us just call it rhythm!) I will only deal with the "Welding" part, and not the brazing part, although these two parts are used in a similar way.
ASME IX (Welding Part) is broken down into 5 broad sections, or "Articles" as they call it:
I: General Requirements: - That deal with the different types of tests, welding positions etc. Good to read through this when you have time.
II: Welding procedure qualifications: - This deals with issues surrounding procedure qualifications. (WPS's and PQR's) There are some preliminary paragraphs that you should read when you have time, but the guts of this section are the tables of variables. One table for each process. The different variables listed in the tables have reference paragraphs that will point you to more information contained in Article 4.
III: Welding Performance Qualifications: - This deals with the qualification of the welding personnel. (WPQ's) It is structured very much like Article II, but the tables deal with welder (people) variables.
IV: Welding data: - This section contains a mish - mash of information, which should generally not be looked at without being referenced there. You could very easily make mistakes if you go straight to this section without being referenced there from the other Articles. As a beginner, NEVER start looking for answers in Article IV. Only go there when referenced from Article I; II or III. (As as aside, if somebody tries to prove a point by showing you a paragraph in Article IV, always ask them from where they were referenced to look at the particular paragraph they are using. If they can not show you from where they have been referenced, then they have not proven anything, other than that they do not understand how to use ASME IX!)
V: Standard welding procedures: - Won't go into this, but have a look if you are interested, but understand that these have limited applicability for many industries.
In your instance, when you are working with WPQ's (Performance Qualifications) you will go to Article III, turn to the relevant table for the process you are checking out, and looking at what the essential variables are. For each variable you will then be referenced to a paragraph in Article IV to get more information. Turn to that paragraph and read what the requirement or range of qualification is. More often than not, this paragraph will reference you to a further paragraph or table in Article IV, for a clearer exposition of the qualified range. (or possible exceptions to the rule)
When checking out WPS's, you do the same as above, but you will start in Article II, referring to the relevant process table, and following the steps I have outlined in the paragraph above.
This should get you on your way, and make it much easier for you to get the answers you are looking for yourself.
Anybody else want to add to this, please feel free to do so.
Regards
Niekie
Very nice description of Sec IX. Might be a good sticky for this thread.
ozniek,
Thanks for this excellent break down.
I especially found your advice on the referencing concerning Article IV very enlightening.
Very good outline on IX, thanks!
I would also recommend The Practical Guide (Vol 2) To ASME Section IX - Welding Qualifications by Michael J. Houle, CASTI Publications.
QCRobert
One last but very important pointer to keep in mind: ASME IX means NOTHING on it's own; i.e., it is NOT a stand alone code, but instead is supplemental to other constructing codes.
Hi Jon
Excellent point. Let me clarify this for any beginners:
Codes can be split into "referencing codes" (e.g. ASME VIII; ASME B31.3 etc) and "referenced codes". (e.g. ASME IX; ASME V etc) The referencing code can require additional restrictions over that in the referenced code, (e.g. B31.3 has different thickness ranges for impact tested materials than that of ASME IX) or can relax some of the requirements in the referenced code, (e.g. B31.3 allows the use of welders qualified by other organisations, without going through the full rigmarole required by ASME IX) or triggers certain requirements within the referenced code. (e.g. ASME VIII or B31.3 will tell you when impact testing is required, and what the acceptance criteria are.)
So, yes it is very important to also understand the inputs being passed on by the referencing code.
Regards
Niekie
Thanks very much for the help and I think I was on the right track. Other questions have developed know that I am aware of much more than I was before. I am still muddling through for clarification.
First question: 301.2 states all performance qualifications must be done in accordance with the WPS. Does this mean my performance qualification has to be 1.5" thick which was the WPS dimension? I have bought "super coupons" which claim 1/2" covers all thicknesses, but doesn't this contradict the code which states "in accordance with the WPS"? I have asked for clarification from the company and am awaiting a response. I'll stop here so as to limit it to one question. Next topic has to do with P numbers.
Thoughts?
Hi Zinnan
Was in Singapore for a couple of days, so have not logged onto the forum for a while.
The assumption in ASME IX is that when a welder performs a test weld, the procedure s/he follows is capable of delivering a sound weld. Therefore the welder needs to follow a qualified welding procedure. It does NOT mean that the WPQ test piece must look like the PQR test piece. What it means is that the test piece dimensions, and the procedure used by the welder must fall within the qualified ranges of a qualified WPS. A WPS qualified on a 1.5" test piece, qualifies a thickness range 5mm - 200mm. (assuming impacts are not an issue - Sorry for the metric) Therefore that WPS could be used for any WPQ test piece within those thickness ranges, so a 1/2" test piece falls within this range, so all OK.
In the same way, you need to make sure your WPQ test piece & the procedure the welder follows falls within the ranges qualified, and reflected on the WPS.
Hope that helps.
Regards
Niekie
Great thanks...lot's of reading and research the last couple of days had led me to that conclusion. The code is definetely tough to navigate for a guy with zero experience with it and no engineering history. I also realized I can use that same 1/2" plate, run three processes (SMAW, GMAW,FCAW) on that plate and qualify 14 different procedures we have in place in our facility. All P#'s and F#'s line up, all WPS and PQR's exist and the parameter ranges qualified are easy to dictate during the testing. For example, xx18 rods, we run 70-120 and all will qualify with this one test. Likewise, 70-120 solid wire will also work due to the P#'s all falling in the 1-11 range. Likewise with the 70T-110T we use. So what I am proposing is 1 combination test for each welder, SMAW, GMAW, and FCAW all used to complete the weld (should take 6 passes to complete). Thanks for your help, I am posting on weldingweb too and getting consistent answers which tells me responses are legitimate.
Hi zinnan
Just something to remember: The thickness the welder is qualified to is the deposited weld thickness, not the material thickness. So if you have the welder deposit 3 different processes on a 12mm (Roughly 1/2") plate, then each process will deposit around 3mm in thickness. (Assuming they are all the same thickness.) This will only qualify your welder to weld 6mm with each process, not "unlimited" thickness.
Regards
Niekie
And just when I thought we were beginning to become friends you go and kick me in the jewels! You're right though. Crap! Thanks very much for your help. It has been invaluable.
