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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Welding Method with wide gap (ASME VIII Div-2)
- - By maxilimiano (**) Date 11-29-2011 02:01
Dear All,
I've got a problem..
I have miss-cutting material for pressure vessel, that specification is:
- Material P1
- Double V groove : 31 mm top Groove and 13mm Bottom groove and 2 mm root.
- Root gap 20 mm (caused by mis-cutting)
- WPS used only for double bevel with base metal 20 mm, symmetric double V-groove..root gap 2 mm (+/- 2mm)
I have suggested to use this methode:
1. Buttering or cladding
2. Using Backing Strip as specified on ASME IX-2007 QW-469.1
Welding Process is SMAW

Can you give me advised what is best method of welding to completed that job? or there is another method that more simple..
Thanks Very-very much

Best Regard
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-29-2011 18:40
Back in my days of erector engineer I was faced with a similar problem. The root gap was sufficiently wide to allow one's hand to pass through it. The equipment was the vacuum tower of an oil refinery.
With the client's approval, we buttered the bevel until the gap became 3 - 4 mm wide.
No backing strip was used. As a matter of fact, neither us nor the client thought of a backing strip. I don't know what the client's opinion would have been if we had proposed to use a backing strip.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By maxilimiano (**) Date 11-30-2011 00:12
Mr. Crissi, what about the WPS/PQR?? Does it need new WPS/PQR?
Pressure Vessel is spherical tank with diameter 30 m..So the bevel is greater than 2 meter length..
If we used buttering system, the big problem is NDE method..There will be many defect of that., because the tank has been erected.

Could you give us an opinion and aspect legal about "backing strip", because I have same opinion with you, so I will refuse an idea about Backing Strip.
Thanks

Regard
Max
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 11-30-2011 19:41
Our vacuum tower was 8 meters in diameter. The problematic weld appeared on a circumferential weld, i.e. perpendicular to the tower height and was longer than 2 meters. I don't remember exactly how much, but about one fourth of the tower perimeter.
The need of a new WPS and PQR was discussed with the client and finally abandoned. So, no new WPS nor PQR were written. The fact that the client was in a hurry to have his refinery operating worked in our favor.
I see no problem with NDE. Our tower had spot RT testing. The client required two radiographs instead of one on the repaired section and both were OK. Of course, special care was taken when buttering. Cleanliness, grinding, leaving the buttered surface smooth etc. deserved special attention.
As I told you, neither us nor the client thought of backing strip. Since the beginning, our discussion was centered in buttering and no one even mentioned backing strip.
This fact happened some 40 years ago, when GMAW was almost unknown in South America. Welding was performed by SMAW. Tower material was ASTM A-285 GrC. Thickness was 3/4 inches. First pass was given with E 7010 and subsequent ones with E 7015. For the buttering operation only E 7015 was used.

Any other question?
Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - - By maxilimiano (**) Date 12-01-2011 00:14
Aha..Loud & Clear Professor Crissi..Thanks and thanks

But I cant't upload picture file (i don't know the way to upload picture in this AWS forum). I just want to share a little information about this case.

I think another problem will be come after all of this..because there will be always another case follow this construction..

Regards
Maxil
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 12-01-2011 19:55
Another information: who paid the bill?
We were the erecting company and when we prepared our bid we didn't know that we were going to find a 20 mm wide gap that needed to be buttered up to allow welding. So, we refused to pay the extra work.
The client take a few photos of the gap and sent them to the vessel fabricator who, apart from the 220 metric tons vacuum tower, had also supplied the 110 metric tons crude distillation tower; i.e. 330 metric tons of platework. 
Of course, the fabricator was wise enough to pay the few hundreds dollars for the extra work without discussion.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / Welding Method with wide gap (ASME VIII Div-2)

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