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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Calibrate machines
- - By Boon (**) Date 12-07-2011 17:24
I did a search on calibration of welding machines and was surprised with the differences in opinion.
Personally I never come across anyone calibrating a welding machine and wonder how is it done.
Some say it's required for certain code.
I am sure which code required calibration and my question is: is it a requirement or recommendation to have welding machine calibrated, under ISO 9001?

Boon
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-07-2011 17:49
Rather than calling it "calibration of the welding machine", I call it "verification of the welding machine".

I verify that the welding machine's output matches closely to the dials and knobs so that my welding personnel can set their machines to weld within my welding procedures.

If the output is way off from what the dial faces show...I'm not certain how you can calibrate them(a welding supply house may have the means to perform this).

Now, I did have one SMAW machine who's the dial was off by 50 amps, so we made a chart and posted it on the machine that basically stated what the dial said and what the output actually was at that setting. We did this for several diameters of E7018 and E7028 that we kept in stock and were listed in my welding procedures. Never had any problems with auditors when they reviewed us. EDIT* We are a D1.1 shop.
Parent - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 12-07-2011 17:56
Calibration of your welding machines - I assume you mean the calibration of the ammeters/voltmeters on the machines.  It is not specifically required by ISO9001.  However, if you are using these instruments to verify that the welders are in compliance with the WPS, then these instruments will be subject to ISO9001:2008 clause 7.6, control of monitoring and measuring equipment, and thus will require them to be calibrated.

Hope that helped more than confused.
Parent - By gndchuck (**) Date 12-10-2011 16:40
I know for us (underwater and hyperbaric welding), as per WPS and for PQR's we must have each machine that will be used on the job site calibrated.  We have a 3rd party come out and do all the testing.  The machines that we use are usually +/- 1 volt/amp.  I'm guessing that it's going to be what the customer or specific type of welding that your are doing.

Charles
Parent - - By vdao3004 (**) Date 12-18-2011 03:52
Boon,
You can use Certified Volt and Amp meter to verify the welding machine:
-Check Volt by using 2 probes touch the terminal +/- during welder welding, then compare two reading between the Machine Gage and Volt meter.
-Check Amp by using Amp Prob to clamp on the cable and do a same above.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-18-2011 15:53 Edited 12-19-2011 15:59
Using the voltage meters installed on the control panel of a welder has little meaning if the welding is performed in the field where the leads are relatively long. The only meaningful voltage reading is between the electrode holder and the work piece. The voltage drop increases the further from the welding machine you are, i.e., the reading shown by the voltmeter at the machine is always higher than the actual voltage across the arc. When the welding cables are short, the voltage drop can be ignored, but as the length of the leads increase, the voltage drop increases. The diameter of the welding cable also plays a part in the voltage drop. The higher the welding current, the smaller the cable diameter, the longer the welding cable, the greater the voltage drop.

Amperage on the other hand is constant where ever you measure it. So, if the welding machine has an ammeter installed on the control panel, the readings can be used regardless of the length of the welding cables.

Another problem that can be encountered when welding in the field is ensuring the power supply can provide sufficient voltage at the point where welding is being done. There is an equation that can be used to verify the power supply is large enough to provide sufficient voltage to the arc. The equation is E= 20v + (0.04 x I) where E is the dynamic voltage deliverable by the power supply, I is the rated amperage of the welding machine, and of course 20v is a constant of 20 volts.

When the welding cables are long, the voltage drop due to cable length, loose or corroded connections, etc. must be figured in so that a power supply large enough can be provided to overcome the voltage drop. For instance, assuming the voltage drop across the arc is 26 volts (under load) and assuming a three volt drop in the cables and connections, the machine must be capable of providing 29 volts under load (while welding). The maximum open circuit voltage is static voltage, not the voltage under load (dynamic voltage). In our example the size of the welding machine would have to be at least:

29 = 20 + (0.04 x I)

Solving for I you get  0.04 x I = 29-20 = 9

then I = 9 / 0.04 = 225

In other words, irrespective of the actual amperage required to weld with a certain diameter electrode, a 225 amp power supply must be provided to produce the required dynamic voltage of 26 volts at the welding arc for the expected voltage drop due to connections, length of leads, and required voltage across the arc. 

From the equation it is clear that when the welding leads are very long, when there are several connections used to joint several shot lengths of welding cable, or when the cable diameter is small, increased resistance causes increased voltage drops that must be factored in when selecting a power supply to ensure sufficient voltage is provided at the welding arc.

Playing the devil's advocate:

Calibrated voltmeters on the control panel? Limited value at best when welding in a shop with short welding cables; affected by voltage drop along the length of the welding cables, affected by cable diameter, current, and connections.

The value of calibrated meters on the control panel: better than a sharp stick in the eye in that it lets the welder know the machine is at least running and gives the inspector something do while walking around the shop floor.

The truth of the matter is if the inspector or the welder is going to use voltage and amperage as a means of ensuring compliance with the WPS, the parameters should be checked with a calibrated multi-meter. The parameters (at least the voltage) should be checked as close to the arc as practical, i.e., at the electrode holder/torch when the process is manual or at the wire feeder if the process is semi-automatic, to mitigate the effects of long welding cables, loose or corroded connections, etc. As mentioned previously, amperage is the same throughout the welding circuit.

As for accuracy of the meters, there is no real agreement from what I've seen. A common requirement is +/- 10% for the meter's range. The acceptable accuracy for a 200 amp meter is +/- 20 amps. The actual value is going to fluctuate as the welder welds due to variations in circuit’s resistance as the metal droplets are transferred through the arc plasma. Therefore, when checking the meters, a load cell should be used to provide a steady state load so the meters provide stable readings.

The bottom line is that most welding standards do not require the ammeter or the voltmeter to be calibrated for good reason. QC types get all wigged out about something that has limited value in the real world of welding. The meters are simply a reference to provide a level of comfort that the welder is welding within the prescribed parameters listed by the WPS.

Think about this for a moment. When most people record the values for amperage and voltage on the PQR, they do so as a single value. In reality, both the voltage and the amperage are varying somewhat as the welder traverses the length of the joint. Many people simply record what they feel is the average value of the parameters. Others will record the “range” observed as the welder traverses the length of the joint. The problem is somewhat mitigated if the process is mechanized and the human element is taken out of the equation, but still there is some fluctuation because the welding arc is dynamic system rather than static system. I suppose that if we were to do everything properly, the voltage would have to be taken at the electrode holder, the amperage anywhere that was convenient, travel speed would have to be controlled by mechanical means so as to be constant, and the instantaneous values of the parameters stored and averaged for each weld bead. There are instruments available with that capability, but the cost is steep and what real benefits would be derived?

Best regards - Al
Parent - By waqasmalik (**) Date 12-10-2015 02:51
Excellent 803056.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 12-19-2011 12:56
Keep in mind ISO 9001 is not a code. Its a business management standard.
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 12-21-2011 10:34
If, for whatever reason you need to validate welding equipment accurately, then this really cannot be done with meters for measuring voltage and amps. Someone has already mentioned above the problem with fluctuations whilst welding due to constantly changing arc length. British Standard BS 7570 describes how this should be done using a load bank to ensure a constant load (and I think the Miller web-site had information on this).
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 12-21-2011 11:49
AISC Standard for Steel Building Structures 2006 (latest edition)

Element 14 Calibration of Inspection, Measuring, and Test Equuiptment

"The procedure shall define equiptment calibration frequency. However, the volt/amp meters used to verify complience with WPS parameters (may be welding machine volt and amp meters or auxiliary volt/amp meters) shall be calibrated whenever the accuracy od the meter is in question and at a minimum every twelve months."

All of us who are AISC certified facilites are familiar with this requirement.  Also Bridge fabricators are as well as the bridge code requires machines to be calibrated every three months.

Now like mentioned above, I agree that the term calibrated is incorrectly used in the standard and code book and it should be changed to "verified" or something similiar.  But until the standard documents changes the way the terms are used and referenced, the rest of the industry will follow that lead.

Hope this helps more than hurts.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 12-23-2011 05:01
I believe the term "calibration" is a caryover from the old days of mechanical measuring equipment that could actually be "calibrated".
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 12-26-2011 16:24
Dave,
  My thoughts as well. With most welding machines it is verification rather than calibration.

jrw159
Parent - - By bmaas1 (***) Date 12-03-2015 22:16
Where in D1.1 does it require verifying WPS variables?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-04-2015 04:06
Look in clause 6, contractor's responsibilities and contractor's inspectors' responsibilities, and inspector's responsibilities.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-08-2015 17:27
And beyond Al's response, look in AISC 'N' I believe.  Gives a run down of what is expected before, during, and after welding that is being adopted across the board as to who, what, when, where, and how inspections are to be done.

He Is In Control, Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By Trackergd (**) Date 12-11-2015 13:26
To answer the OP with regard to ISO 9001, it is universally understood that welding falls under "special processes".  I would argue more so than paint (unless you are doing something unusual like military CARC) or powder or Teflon coating.

That said, you might consider:

7.1 Planning of Product Realization.  Need for processes, documents and resources (WPS, PQR and Welder Qualification) where noted in contract specifications or normal business practice.
7.5.1 Control of Production and Service Provision.  Availability of work instructions, use of suitable equipment and Implementation of monitoring and measurement activities.
7.6 Control of Measuring and Monitoring Equipment.  Where necessary to ensure valid results, calibrate or verify the measuring equipment at specified intervals or prior to use (gas pressure gauges and welder readouts are accurate), safeguard them from improper adjustments (fiddling with the welder settings).
8. Measurement, Analysis and Improvements (8.1 General) Demonstrate conformity of product requirements. (8.2.3) Monitoring and Measurement of Processes) and (8.2.4 Monitoring and Measurement or Product).

Most companies that are ISO 9001 and have welding processes "calibrate" their welders, which is to say that they verify the machine readouts and do calibrate the gas pressure gauges.  More so if they are in a "safety critical" industry as it mitigates liability if you can demonstrate a robust monitoring and control system for your special processes.

Hope this helps!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Calibrate machines

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