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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Role and Importance of Earthing in Ard Welding
- - By Nalla (***) Date 12-11-2011 11:28
Dear Experts

I would like to know from you the importance of Earthing in welding. How close should the earth contact be to the welding torch location ? For the same job ,if we have to weld simultaneously in two locations with two torches, do we have to provide Earthing to each locations? How much Earthing? Its relation with weld current/voltage. How much Earthing contributes to spatter generation and the poor weld quality? Especially when the vessels' commissioning completed where all system is energized and "life". I beleive whitout proper earthing it will affect equipment functioning

Thanks
Parent - - By fbrieden (***) Date 12-11-2011 17:13
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Hope that helps!
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 12-11-2011 17:51
I think you spelled it wrong.
Parent - By fbrieden (***) Date 12-11-2011 18:22
You're right! I did spell it wrong. I left off the }
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 12-11-2011 17:56
I was at Home Depot the other day and asked the electrical guy the same thing.  He said I should try using a bigger Shore Clamp.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-12-2011 01:24 Edited 12-12-2011 01:35
The only time a connection to earth serves a useful purpose is when there is a short in the power supply. About the only thing the connection to ground will do is providing an alternate path for the current to "ground" so the fuse or circuit breaker will trip. In theory it could save the welder from becoming a light bulb for a second or two before dropping to the ground dead as a mackerel.

There is a flip side to every story. Failure to provide for a proper earth connection can potentially provide a job opportunity for the next welder looking for a job. It is just another case of Darwin in action. Only the smart survive to earn a respectable living.

It reminds me of the time many years ago when I was visiting relatives in Florida. My cousin wanted a bumper hitch installed on his car. He asked if I would be willing to do it for him. I said it wasn't a problem if he would lend a hand and if he knew someone with a welder.

He said, "No problem. My buddy's got a welder in his garage."

Off we went. I had Roy holding the part against the frame as I tacked it. As soon as I struck the arc, Roy let out a yelp like a 12 year old girl!

"Come on Roy, it can't be that bad! It's only 60 or 80 volts if that." I told him.

He said, "It really bit me!"

"Roy, the maximum OVC is about 80 volts. These little buzz boxes usually put out between 40 and 60 volts. So stop whimpering and hold that piece up." was my retort.

Once again I struck the arc and again Roy let out a howl like a little girl getting a flu shot.

"Come on Roy! What's the matter? I asked him.

"I'm getting my multimeter. I'm getting a heck of a lot more than 40 volts!" he muttered.

Roy checked the voltage at the terminals. He was right. He was getting wacked with 230 volts. Luckily he was lying on dry concrete. As it turned out, whoever hooked up the welding machine hooked it up wrong.

Best regards - Al :roll::sad:
Parent - - By Nalla (***) Date 12-13-2011 09:10
Dear Experts
Pls provide simple answers role/importance of proper earthing
Thanks
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 12-13-2011 11:57
Proper grounding is the key to maintaining arc stability.
Voltage drop from the act of traveling through ground leads and connections averages 1 volt per 15 feet of travel.
Having undersized ground lead and/or poor work connections amplify this loss in arc voltage.
With a poor ground, you can still strike an arc, but the resulting unstable arc will detrementally affect the weld quality.
Poor grounds often lead to inexperienced welders claiming the welding machine is broken.

Tim
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-13-2011 12:55
Nalla,

I thought that was what Al had done.  And then provided an excellent example to explain.

But, let me ask a question: Are you referring to the 'Ground', properly termed 'Work' coming from the welding equipment to the project?  Or maybe a 'Ground' that goes from the welding equipment and/or project to the 'Earth'/'Ground' ?  Or am I missing another possible definition of 'Earthing'?

It can be difficult for us to get your translation correctly interpreted at times to know how to properly respond to your questions.

Many larger projects I have worked were very safety concerned and had procedures requiring the 'Grounding' of the work, the equipment, and other items which could in any way be cause for electrical hazard.  We drove 10 foot long copper clad rods into the ground and connected them to the pressure vessels, tanks, etc that were under construction.  We drove more into the ground at the generator trailer that powered a number of welders and grounded that.  The 'Ground' that is included in common electrical lines is not always adequate for the job.  In Oregon all our farm outbuildings had to have the metal skin of the building grounded separately from any electrical ground for power.  Then, the power system had a Ground besides the Neutral that comes through the line.  Many will say, and I am no electrician, that the neutral and ground are the same.  In many aspects that is true.  But there are differences in the safety application between the two.  That is why small 110 volt hand tools with certain housing materials in their design need a grounding lug as well as the hot and neutral wires and all industrial and residential codes changed a good many years ago to include a three wire cord/recepticle instead of just two wires. 

Some projects will require repairmen with portable welders to drive a ground/earth rod and ground their equipment before striking an arc.  Safety, both for the workers and the equipment from stray electrical charges that follow the path of least resistance. 

Hope I have understood your OP correctly and that this is of help. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-13-2011 14:06
Brent and Al have provided good insight.

I've been watching this thread and cringing... 

Brent has made the most important point in this conversation so far... Which I will repeat.

We don't know what your talking about!

Understanding terms is difficult, and extra difficult when english is not the primary language of one of the persons involved.  It just makes it a little harder  :)

1.   Earth Ground

2.   Work Lead

These two items are both very important and both have a role in welding safety and quality.. But they are not the same thing.

I think you will get the answer you want when you can describe for us in a little better detail what your electrical issues are.

Both Earth grounding and work lead placement are always covered in the welding power supply operators manual... If you have exausted this source of data and still are having problems.. or just don't understand.. there is probably somebody here who can assist you in trouble shooting.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-13-2011 16:55
It is just one more example where the need to use standard terminology rears its ugly head.

A copy of AWS A3.0 may be the ticket out of the dilemma.

Al
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 12-14-2011 23:44
Nalla apologies for some of the responses. The Lincoln Electric's operator manual regarding Electromagnetic Compatibility (emc) quote "Earthing of the Workpiece - Where the workpiece is not bonded to earth for electrical safety, not connected to earth because of its size and position, e.g., ships hull or building steelwork, a connection bonding the workpiece to earth may reduce emissions in some, but not all instances. Care should be taken to prevent the earthing of the workpiece increasing the risk of injury to users, or damage to other electrical equipment. Where necessary, the connection of the workpiece to earth should be made by a direct connection to the workpiece, but in some countries where direct connection is not permitted, the bonding should be achieved by suitable capacitance, selected according to national regulations."
What I believe this is saying is that if emc is problematic "earth" the secondary and machine to prevent emc from damaging printed circuit boards in the welding machine.
Also if two or more machines have different secondary connections (like one electrode positive and one electrode negative) to work piece this places the machines output in series which doubles the voltage versus both machines with the same output (both electrode positive) which would be parallel same voltage.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-15-2011 03:15
Apologies  indeed Nalla

When 357 takes two months off between his posts, the rest of us are left to do the best we can...  Apparently not good enough.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-15-2011 14:56
Very informational and well researched 357.  It once again shows the vastness and variables of our trade applications especially when considering the world wide significance.

Nalla,  If my post was offensive, then I apologize.  It was only intended to be informational in as far as my limited knowledge of grounds and/or 'earthing' went. 

I'm glad that we have such a variety of knowledge and understanding on this forum and am hopeful that 357's response, and to a degree some of the others, gave you all the information you were seeking.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 12-14-2011 02:39
This link should answer your questions about ship grounding when welding.

http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/marine/articles/38231.aspx
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Role and Importance of Earthing in Ard Welding

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