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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / CMTR ( Cert) for welding material
- - By vdao3004 (**) Date 12-15-2011 21:31
We purchase the  welding material which is use for Charpy impact test requirement in WPS, but I found no machanical or charpy report in the CMTR, I contacted our  supplier, they told me that it is not required per AWS code, but some of other brand name,it reported these information in the CMTR.
- Does it require to have machanical or charpy report in the CMTR? or we must order it by specified the requirement if we want it.
- Can we use the welding material without machanical or charpy report in the CMTR for WPS with Charpy requirement.
Thanks in advance.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 12-15-2011 21:39
What Code are you constructing to?
Parent - - By vdao3004 (**) Date 12-16-2011 01:03
Just Jon,
We apply to Section 9/ B31.3/PED.
Thanks
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 12-16-2011 01:36
Not sure on the PED aspects, Section IX is not a constructing code and only discusses impacts where impacts are required by the constructing code.

That said, if per B31.3, as long as your WPS was qualified with impact testing and you are using the same specification and classification of filler metals, you wouldn't need impacts on your CMTR's.  One provision: if you are using "G" classification of electrodes and change manufacturer or Trade Name, you may need to requalify.

Sorry, not prepared to help on PED aspects.
Parent - - By vdao3004 (**) Date 12-16-2011 03:30
Jon,
Per what you said, if we want to qualify the WPS for charpy requirement, we will take a chance which the test coupon will fail at certain temp. because we do not know how good the welding material is. And can we request the supplier test the welding material to certain requirement for each heat? before we purchase.
Thanks.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-16-2011 17:05
You can request and obtain nearly anything from the manufacturer when the order is placed if you are prepared to shoulder the cost of the testing or documentation requested.

You need to obtain a copy of AWS A5.01 or ASME SFA5.01 (Guide for the Procurement of Filler Metals) to learn what testing is typically required and what additional testing can be requested.

Al
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 12-17-2011 11:43
Are you guys at the wind-up? You are asking the most basic questions which should be answered by someone in your company who knows what they are doing. Where are you from? India?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-17-2011 15:39 Edited 12-17-2011 15:42
Glad to see I'm not the only one that enjoys breaking someone else's "nads", but let's not step on someone's toes too hard.

Everyone has feelings you know. I was thinking he might be from Asia! :wink:

All kidding aside, it is meant to be in good humor, this is not an unusual question. Many people given the task of ordering welding materials, or using welding consumables, do not know how to order them and get all the supporting documentation required for their particular project. That is why I included a reference to AWS 5.01 in my response.

This problem is so prevalent that when I am performing an audit I ask for a copy of the purchase orders issued for ordering filler metals to see what information is provided to the suppliers. Many purchase orders do not include basic information that would ensure the supplier knows exactly what is required. As an example, one PO I saw simply stated the company needed 1000 pounds of 1/8 inch diameter Lo-Hi electrode. No specification listed, no brand (if there was a preference) no AWS/ASME classification, no packaging/container size, etc. It kept the PO short and concise, but it also left some important questions unaddressed.

Al
Parent - - By vdao3004 (**) Date 12-18-2011 02:59
Thanks all, it make my job easier to ask these questions here , I do known a lot of welding experts in this forum, I did cover these basic requirement which is missed by experience W.E.in the past.
Regards,
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 12-19-2011 04:40
Everyone has to begin somewhere and "most of us" were young once and didn't know all the answers! ;-)
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 12-19-2011 12:23
LOL, I was young once...... but I knew it all then. :wink:

Now... not so much. :grin:

jrw159
Parent - - By vdao3004 (**) Date 12-19-2011 19:25
By the way, when  I am reading ASME/ PED./ Petro Bras./ IBR ( India Boiler Reg. Code) they are like in Greekee, it hard to make sense and when combined them together, plus we get special requirements from our customer, I got big head-achssss.
Regards,
Parent - - By nantong (**) Date 12-21-2011 13:16
If it's too hot in the kitchen.....
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-21-2011 15:52
I understand some of the angst.

At one point in my career I was involved as a coordinator, working as the liaison, between my employer and subcontractors providing us with pressure vessels. I was constantly warning our engineering department, those fine people that developed the project specifications, that they could not simply reference several welding and construction standard (codes) and expect the subcontractors to determine which one applied and when. The general attitude of the engineering department was it was the subcontractor’s problem. Needless to say, their sloppy project specifications and lazy attitude bit them in the butt on many occasions. We had bid packages returned unopened because the subcontractors had had bad experiences with the project specifications and drawings with wrong welding symbols, dimensional errors, etc. They were not even interested in bidding for our work.

I was ultimately given the task of co-working on the project specification when it came to the welding and inspection requirements. No bid packages left the office without my review and blessing. It did make a difference in the quality of the product we received and lowered the price of the quotes we got from our vendors. The reasons given was that now the subs knew what was required and didn't have to anticipate lost production time as they waited for responses to RFIs.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By vdao3004 (**) Date 12-22-2011 02:55
Sorry , I did know all, so I need all the help from experts who can give a quick answer, instead I need to research it, yes,the kitchen is hot, but I love the challenging, I believe that Forum is for?
Thanks all
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / CMTR ( Cert) for welding material

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