I don't know about the structural part of your question but I run dual shield and CO2 in CC only off my Classic III with a LN-25. I spent six weeks this fall building bridge falsework and have been welding big bore water line the last 5 weeks. It still makes a beautiful weld and is easy to run. I even built a bunch of handrail over Thanksgiving weekend using .035 ER 70 hard wire with C-25 shielding gas. So I would think you would be safe to use it on most projects unless otherwise specified. At least it gives you an option until you got a machine or adaptor to run CV because you can alway stick weld.
hey tommy i got a ln-25 here in the shop, got new liner in it and a new spool of 045 solid wire, good little welder hope the holidays diddn't hurt u to bad maybe 2012 will be good to yeah in ur welding business, a guy that i work with at 3m got on at that baker huges outfit in searcy, he's going to be doing there rebuilds on there pumps starting him out at 24.50 an hour and top out is 31.00 not to bad at all, i'm thinking about applying next time they need welders lol
Tommy,
I Suitcase feeder is , in a sense, Stupid. Meaning it does not know if you have CC, CV or CC/CV. That is why it is "Voltage Sensing". It will run on any machine. LN-25, ESAB and Miller Suitcase will all work on your machine as long as it is VS (Voltage Sensing) You DO NOT need a CV module. Anyone who says you do is full of it and I will be GLAD to show you. I have my Vantage here as well as a SA-200 and a 300D. I can run my LN-25 or 300VS ESAB on any of them. I can run any of them on the Vantage in Either CV or CC. It makes NO difference, I will run Soild, Flux Core or DualSheild wire with any Gas or Innersheild without Gas
Hey Cactus.
I reckon I should have asked my question better. I know they will run off my machine, I have used one before. But I never have tried dual shield or solid wire with one on a CC power supply. If it Dual Shield runs well that way then I reckon I should buy that thing because it would be real handy on some jobs. BUT If I wanted to do any D1 work with it I would have to have a CV unit right?
3.2.4 FCAW and GMAW Power Sources. FCAW and GMAW that is done with prequalified WPSs shall be performed using constant voltage (CV) power supplies.
They don't specifically exclude CC in the code far as I know but I have read it is virtually impossible to meet the testing requirements running a CC machine.
As aevald said, It is not forbidden. It must be qualified. It's not hard. Ironworkers have been doing it for years. I have passed MANY D1.1 with an Sa-200 and a LN-25 running Innersheild. Usually a 1" Plate Vert and Overhead. They will do it all day long.
I have an sa-200 that is a bit far from being ready to bolt into the truck, but I have run onto a LN-25 that I can trade for and hadn't pulled the trigger because I wasn't sure how well the two would play together.
Does the LN-25 do pretty good with the SA-200, or is it just fair? I am hoping to pull the trigger on a SAE-250 that I may throw onto the truck as a primary and roll the SA-200 back as a back up when I finish getting it put together. I know the 250 will run it no issues, but have been told the SA-200 would not be a good choice by guys I work with based on their lack of experience with the SA-200.
It does well. AS long as you dont try and run to big of wire.
And what would you consider to be the largest wire that it can run reliably?
I would stay with an .045 wire. It will work well with a SA-200 AND you can weld anything you want with it. Just my opinion
By aevald 
Date 01-02-2012 01:45
Edited 01-02-2012 02:04
Hello Tommy, this topic has come up on here as well as many other forums that I frequent. Self-shielded flux core welding on structural steel isn't forbidden, it does however, need to be qualified by running weld procedures to verify the ability to meet code. Using CC to weld with on a portable feeder requires the voltage sensing ability. If a wire feeder simply fed a fixed rate of wire then every time there was much of a change in the arc length the possibility of snuffing out the arc or burning the wire back against the contact tip would be high. A voltage sensing feeder essentially monitors the arc voltage and when the arc length increases voltage goes up and the wire speeds up to maintain a constant length, if the arc length is shortened the voltage goes down and the feeder compensates by slowing down to maintain a constant arc length. I am going to try to include a link from Miller that can likely explain much of this way better than I can. Solid wire and short circuiting transfer is one of the major areas where there are issues with CC and voltage sensing feeders. Good luck and best regards, Allan
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/index.php?page=articles52.htmlAfter I reread my post it occurred to me that I had actually described one of the issues with using CC and Voltage Sensing systems and structural steel applications. WPS's often specify wire speed as an important criteria. Since the Voltage Sensing systems are self-adjusting with regard to wire speed I believe this is the reason that the combination is frowned upon or disallowed.
Assuming a reasonably skilled operator with a reasonably steady hand, the biggest potential problem with CC and your VS suitcase is poor quality starts. Your CC power source is, by design, going to have much more slope than one in CV mode. If your CC power source has an adjustable dig or slope you may find it improves starting if you decrease the slope or increase the dig. This will make the volt/amp curve more closely resemble that of a power source with CV output.... more amperage change available for a given change in voltage / more amperage available to clear or prevent a short.
If you are starting on run off tabs stubling starts aren't a big deal. But if you must make starts inside the joint itself, there is more potential for LOF, slag inclusion, and porosity than when using CV.
Also the variable wire feed speed operation of your suitcase on CC relies on motor speed changes in a mechanical system, so it takes longer to react to arc length changes than CV / fixed wire feed speed operation which corrects arc length based on near instantaneous amperage changes. Agains, CC is generally not too big a deal given a steady operator, but the method is also more susceptible to temporary excessive arc lengths if the welder pulls back on the gun abrubtly.
Some Innershield wires run CC better than others. For example the E71T-11s tend to run fairly nicely, the E71T-8s which can be more voltage sensitive, not as well.
Hey Blaster Well I would like to think I am "reasonably skilled".
My machine does have an arc force dial so I reckon that will help out and it has enough grunt to run about whatever size wire. I was going to buy one about a year ago but thinking that CC GMAW and FCAW was being done away with on code welding turned me away from it. I am getting more heavy repairs these days so having that capability on the truck is just another moneymaker.
I really appreciate the replies fellas. It put the issue to bed for me, I am getting a good suitcase for the truck.
Tommy, I am about 3 hours from Little Rock. Just come down one day and I will show you the Ins and Outs of the Feeder. Oh Yeah, and you can bring that Bottle of Crown XR you owe me.
hey tommy unless you have one your looking at to buy mines going to be on the market, not sure what its worth but one weekend your not booked up we can get together and you can try it out <-------------no croen for me :-)
I dont drink croen either.
Hey man you bet.....I have only a few small shop jobs this week. Just give me a holler when your free and I will drive on over.
Cactus your Crown XR is being sourced out at the moment...distributors round here are smooth out of it. You might think on stashing some back as they are running out ...those are rare kegs as I am sure you are aware. I can't come visit right now much as I would like too, really like to check out your armory!.... so I will have to have it shipped to you. I will go visit our mutual friend to see where he is getting his at, ought to be a hoot.
By 803056
Date 01-03-2012 03:14
Edited 01-05-2012 01:50
It isn't a problem as long as you are working to the Farm Code. The nature of the power source, i.e., CC or CV, is an essential variable when working to AWS D1.X, as noted previously, so the WPS is not prequalified if you are using a CC power supply.
I ran tons of FCAW using a CC power supply and a suit case wire feeder, but that was before they changed D1.1 limiting prequalified WPSs using FCAW and GMAW to CV power supplies. I do not believe the code committee would have added that restriction to the code unless there were problems. Lincoln Electric has a strong presence on the structural welding committees and I have to believe they would have done their best to stop the change limiting prequalification to CV power supplies if there was no basis for doing so.
Best regards - Al
