Chuck;
Unless I missed the point, it doesn't seem that your questin was addressed specific to YOUR situation. Normally, an individual would not get an "R" Stamp, as a welder, you wouldn't need an "R" stamp to work on ASME Pressure vessels, you would need ASME Section IX certs as supplemented by the applicable ASME Code, i.e., Section VIII, etc. Companies that do ASME work, either repair or alteration work would usually require an "R" stamp for "Repair" or an "A" stamp for "Alterations." Unless your doing a whole lot of $$$ volume as an independent, I don't think it would be worth pursuing for you personally. As the other guys already said, an entity holding an ASME Stamp must have a rigerous quality program which includes paying ASME and/or the National Board to come in and audit the program. It is quite intensive. As a side note, if YOU are doing work which requires any sort of an ASME Stamp, both YOU and the OWNER are asking for big trouble. In most states now ASME Code is considered LAW and as such, work done which is required to fall under those Codes may subject violators to severe fines, jail time and lawsuits. Hopefully, you have just gotten confused between what you need as a welder and what an employer must have to do ASME work! Happy Holidays to you and all the others!
Thanks for the replies and e-mails folks. I work for a fertilizer and chem. dealer and we needed work done to our ammonia nurse tanks per state chemist's request. He then informs me that I can not perform any work to any anhydrous ammonia equipment that involves cutting or welding without an 'r' stamp. So we call in this guy to make the repairs, and I was not overly impressed with the quality of his work, or the fact that he charged $425 per tank on 8 tanks that had to have legs replaced that attach the tank to the running gear. I know the guy that supplies the legs for about $10 a piece. So then I call the chemists office to ask why the welds don't have to be inspected, and he tells me that it is not required by the state on ammonia equipment. So I guess what I'm saying is that I believe I would like to do this. I think I could offer quality work at a bit more affordable price. The only problem is the enormous price it takes initially to get the whole thing going. I have the equipment to do the job, and I believe the skills to do work worthy of the stamp. I do quite a bit of custom fabrication and welding jobs as a side business of my own on weekends and evenings, specializing in onsite repairs of agricultural equip.. I have over thirty certifications in smaw not the least of which is 6g 6inch sch 80 pipe. I'm not trying to beat the system, but just trying to find a little easier and cheaper way to get started. THANKS chuck
I don't know if all anhydrous ammonia equipment requires an R stamp. The pressure vessels probably do but as far as the interconnecting piping etc. No.
If your work was real "R" stamp work. Ask the guy for a copy of the "R-1" form.
If you have the equipment, QA manual, a weldig procedure, a welder certified to work within the parameters of the wps, you may be close to what you need.
Much of the ability to do code work would lie more in your quality system. Having skilled welders helps but there is more to it than that. I haven't seen the quality manual written about above but I would suggest obtaining one just to see whats involved. All the weldng skill in the world won't help you if you repair or alter a pressure vessel and don't follow ALL of the requirements of the code. Not just the welding. I have considered getting an R stamp myself but haven't had the extra money lying around. I'm too cheap to keep up my CWI :)
I recently was involved in a project where an end user power company was purchasing an off the shelf urea handling system that the company had been making for years. As soon as the equipment arrived at the plant, the piping was expected to be B31.1 (But not specified in the PO) . The company that made the equipment indicated their largest backcharge ever was like $65.00. yet had the piping rewelded. I don't know how it turned out but someone had to pay extra.
I'm done ramblin now.
Have a good day
G Austin
I may be wrong here, but wouldn't anhydrous ammonia fall into the "lethal service" section of ASME? It would be an "R" stamp job, or maybe ABS or DOT specs...Some sort of inspection would be required, or at least I would think... The whole situation here sounds wierd...:no inspection required even if you're just welding legs or supports on to a vessel, it's still a modification or repair..
I'm not familar with the "Lethal Service" section of ASME. I guess that is in ASME Sec VIII. ParT UG, UW, UCS??? Here is an article by the NBIC that mey provide us information http://www.nationalboard.net/Classics/classic28.html
The piping may very well be categorized as lethal service by the owner as indicated in ANSI B31.3 however said pipng does not require an "R" stampholder.
I'm not sure if welding on legs would be a routine repair, repair, or alteration as defined by the current NBIC but I'm pretty sure the authorized inspector would have to be notified.
Good Day
G Austin
Chuck,
Sorry for getting off the subject, and not following your original question. I wasn't "in the know" on this subject, and asked some questions for myself.
John Wright
John, Not a problem, thats one of the things that makes me really like this site, the different perspectives are great. As far as the state chemist office is concerned any weld repair that is done to anhydrous ammonia vessels or attached piping or structure you must have a 'r' stamp. I was thinking about checking on Illinois regulations since I live in west central Indiana, and may be able to pick up some work close. THANKS chuck
By B2210
Date 08-01-2003 20:36
Chuck,
Having worked for a Mechanical and piping outfit with its "R" and "S" stamps and with personal experience with the State Chemists requirements and the State's classification of the nursing tanks as ASME Section VIII pressure vessels.
I went to one provider to look at some work for them. There are multiple hazards for the stamp holder to do repairs to these vessels.
1. Most of these vessels this supplier had were quite old and the stamp/id plates were so worn or damaged beyond legibility. Or these had been removed in the past by "hands" doing in-house repairs and painting. Besides the corrosive nature of the material when it is spilled on the outside of the vessel and moisture is added to the mix.
Basically it boiled down to this. Could not verify the National Board number of the vessel. Nor was any manufacturers data reports available to ascertain material of construction nor the thickness of material.
These are important when making a "code" repair to any pressure retaining item".
2. From the situation above the contractor making the repair would not be able to make the repair with quite a substantial amount additional paper chase and testing of base materials. Along with attempting to I.D. the vessels National Board registration.
3. There is also the additional requirement of the R-1 report (Record of Welded Repair) that must be executed. The cost of the Authorized Inspector (Commonly the contractor has a contract for Inspection service with outfits like Factory Mutual, Chubb, or Hartford Steam Boiler)
These guys have their say and inspection hold points also. So they charge for the contractor for their services.)
That is just a few of the things I observed and the reasons why when asked for my evaulation of whether we should do the work I had to say no. It was too much of a liability against my employers code stamps and reputation.
Yes anyone can weld on a pressure vessel. But to do it right, ethically, as well as, within the requirements of the NBIC, ASME, and the State of Indiana Boiler and Pressure Vessel code requirements takes more than a welding procedure and a couple pounds of 7018.
The State of Indiana has some very knowledgable and helpful inspectors and staff. Their Indy home office number can be found by contacting the State Firemarshalls Office.
Pressure Vessels are dangerous and all aspects of the repair must be taken into account and evaluated to ensure that the repair is sound and does not cause additional harm or weaken the overall device.
Visit the NBIC's web site. There is an annual report on the number of recordable/reported incidents involving Boilers and Pressure Vessels.
Pressure Vessel failure due to improper repairs kills quite a few people every year. And this only shows the ones that are reported. I would not want to talk about all the injuries and monetary loss involved in most.
