WPS for Sect.9 and PED

Date 01-23-2012 14:11

This OP is quite messy. First of all there are third party inspection requirements imposed in PED that are not imposed in ASME Section IX. Secondly, there is no such thing as a PWHT Code. There is however Codes of construction with PWHT requirements. The Code of construction is to be determined by the customer/end user.
It appears you are thinking in terms of Section VIII Div 1 in which case you have to comply with both Section IX and Section VIII for PWHT.

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 01-31-2012 21:09

try pokin around this place......you will need this procedure to be witnesed and tested by approved means.
http://www.us.bureauveritas.com/wps/wcm/connect/BV_USNew/local/Home/Our-Services/Industrial_Manufacturing_Compliance/IND_Inspection_of_Boiler_and_Pressure_Vessels/IND_Inspection%20of%20Boiler%20and%20Pressure%20Vessels/

Our guy came in last week to do 2 PQRs we recorded the essentials welded the plates he fills out his paper work off to testing.
There are also document requirments....they have the forms youll need.

http://www.us.bureauveritas.com/wps/wcm/connect/BV_USNew/local/Home/Our-Services/Industrial_Manufacturing_Compliance/IND_Inspection_of_Boiler_and_Pressure_Vessels/IND_Inspection%20of%20Boiler%20and%20Pressure%20Vessels/

By nantong (**)

Date 02-11-2012 11:11

VDAO30004, please contact your company's welding engineer on this subject. PED is as you say not a technical specification, it is guidance for European Countries to accept into their individual contries laws to ensure harmonisation of products between the member states. Basically this means every country in Europe must operate in the same way to avoid things being over-pressurised.
If you want to sell equipment in the EU you need to know the law. You clearly do not know what is required and are therefore a danger.

By ozniek

Date 02-12-2012 07:06

Hi nantong

The reason for asking questions is to get educated. If we were only alowed to post questions if we know everything, then this forum would not have any posts asking questions, and nobody would learn anything from it. The people that are dangerous are those that do not ask questions when they are uncertain.

Where I come from there is a saying: It is better to appear ignorant today than to be ignorant for the rest of your life.

Regards
Niekie

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 02-12-2012 23:58

Hi Nieke,
I think Nantong is just expressing the feelings some of us may have had and not expressed.
I have seen a huge amount of questions on the forum from VDAO and while it is admirable to ask questions you have to wonder why the company he works for does not hire someone who knows the answers to these questions (eg. a Welding Engineer).
I know from personal experience what a minefield the PED is and trying to understand it over an internet forum is "Mission Impossible".,
Regards,
Shane

By nantong (**)

Date 02-13-2012 10:41

Exactly Shane, it is clear that if he cannot answer basic questions then he is not in a senior position within his company and if is the case then, if his company does undertake welding projects that are based on ASME and or PED then his company surely must have people in place who know the answers. I cvertainly would not be happy if I found out VDAO worked for my company and he was asking these types of questions instead of asking in-house.
When I read a question on a forum i expect it to be well structured giving all pertinent technical information leading up to a concise question on how to meet particular project requirements. When posing the question the person asking the question should demonstrate by the way he addresses a question a level of technical ability. I am afraid that to me VDAO falls far short of this.

Nieke, don't know where you come from but I will give you some advice and I have been around the block, be careful when asking technical questions. I have read some of your comments and you appear to be pretty well clued-up. My point is make sure you do not come across as knowing SFA. If you do then people will assume you know SFA. Asking dumb questions does not go down well.

By ozniek

Date 02-13-2012 14:22

Hi Nantong

I understand your position and frustrations, but believe there can be a different point of view on this. Organisations that discourage questioning tend to stagnate and struggle to create a culture of learning. Those that encourage questioning tend to have a culture in which personal growth and learning is valued. Which of these do we want this forum to be? If an on-line forum is not the place to ask the stupid questions, then where? There are very few (if any) of us that have not made a silly statement on this very forum, only to be helped right by somebody else. That is the beauty of online forums. They tend to have a built in review mechanism. Sometimes I like "stupid" questions, because then I do not have to ask them myself. I can just wait for the answer and be educated without being labelled "stupid".

I am glad of those "mentors" that I had as a young engineer, who were supportive of my personnal development by allowing stupid questions. Those "I do not suffer fools" types of senior engineers taught me very little other than how to CYA. I suppose that is worth knowing, but it certainly did not help my technical development much.

I believe your first post to vdao on this string could have been quite benificial to him if you gave the principles (The question you are asking is complex and has many potential legal pitt-falls, so make sure you do not use the answer of this forum as definitive. AND Your question is worded a little messy, so it is not easily understood.) without the criticism. You know what I mean? With less effort you could have been helpfull without the "stab to the heart". Hope the poor guy (girl?) is not so wounded that he throws himself from a building. (Just joking - Was not quite that bad.)

Don't want to preach. I guess I just like things to be "civil".

Regards
Niekie

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 02-13-2012 16:18

Hey Niekie,
How about that big tinfoil debate of 02? ....shiny side in or out when roasting your turkey?
I believe you were participating in that debate....Stupid questions or Silly questions, whichever generates some thought and excersizes that noodle between our ears, generates a thought, or a thought process to keep us ever learning....I can appreciate your post and what it means for a forum and the participants that ask and asnwer questions in our quest to learn.
Take care.

By ozniek

Date 02-14-2012 13:39

Hi

Yes, that was a bit of a laugh, although we were all rather certain of our opinions at the start. At the end, it just showed that what one has accepted as true (without real evidence) is not necessarily so! A good natured debate certainly does pay dividends.

Regards
Niekie

By vdao3004 (**)

Date 02-15-2012 02:34

Gentlemen,
I thanks for your help and opinion, I only ask these questions because I am not sure, I just get in this business by accident , it is new trade for me,and if I knew all the answer , I will not ask these questions, I am only looking advise, and if it boring some one for these new bee questions, then this forum is not for me.
I appreciated for all comment and advise.
Regards,

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 02-15-2012 03:08

vdao,
You have posted numerous times and some questions are very basic and some are very technical but all fall within the knowledge base of a Welding Engineer or someone with similar knowledge / experience.
You clearly do not have this knowledge base or you would not be asking so many questions.
You do not "get in this business by accident" and if it is "new trade for you" you should not be responsible for making critical welding decisions.
Failure of pressure piping / vessels can have catastrophic consequences so the people making important welding decisions should have obtained this knowledge from education, training, research, SOHK etc - not from an internet forum.
Regards,
Shane

By 803056

Date 02-27-2012 18:45

Some people are lucky enough to be born with all the answers. The majority of us learn by asking questions, both silly and profound.

A silly question to one person is a question of great importance to another. A little direction, word of caution, or a good answer can keep a "newbe" on course and out of trouble.

Best regards - Al

By vdao3004 (**)

Date 03-05-2012 02:22 Edited 03-05-2012 02:30

Thanks Al, and other

I just found out "Sir" nantong profession, he was born with all welding knowledge , see his comment be low and more in "Technical section"; he always think he know all, he will be rich and famous as Steve Job, Bill Gate very soon. He always critize other people .....I hope that he will he will write a book for me to use , he can not pick on me any more ,so he get into other, it is bad.... I hope that i can see him in US, so I can ...

"By nantong Date 02-24-2012 14:00 ssweld, I am a welding engineer at the front end of industry not a back-slap buddy, I call a spade a spade capeche?. I do no not care if Crisi has written here for twelve years, that means nothing to me.

Multiple repairs to the same weld repair area is extremely complex considering different materials, thicknesses, mode of manufacture of materials, welding processes, etc etc etc it is endless.

How can Crisi put forward such a simplistic view. I question the integrity by the simple statement of using a file for back-grinding along with the main points of how you control that the original HAZ has been reheated.

If he wants I will personally donate a 5 inch angle grinder to his university.

U guys seem to be so be preoccupied by titles and how many posts they have made. In my honest opinion most he writes is erroneous, he maybe an engineer but he he knows little about welding.

I see "Prof. Crisi" has gone AWOL"

By nantong (**)

Date 03-09-2012 11:24

vdao3004, first I must thank you for quoting me on Crisi's article and I note from all the comments on the article your input was zero.

Regarding all your posts you come on this forum asking for technical help in the qualification of welding procedures where you clearly indicate that you are the one making the technical decisions within your company (you always use the first person) and you ask the most basic questions that leads me to think you may make decisions in welding that may be unsafe. For example you clearly do not know much about PED but you want to qualify welding procedures that will be acceptable. PED is not a welding code or standard, it is a directive to all European member states to adopt in to their laws to ensure that pressure equipment is safe to use in the Eurozone. If you do not know this most basic concept then your company has a problem employing you as a decision maker in welding.

By vdao3004 (**)

Date 03-11-2012 01:55

Nantong,
I do know the PED , IBR, Section 9, B31.1, B31.3 code, we are dealing with these every day, I do know our customer W.E understand a code not a same, I send them a WPS, 1 accepted , 1 doesn't , I only ask these basic questions, so I can learn from all other expert out there for opinion, and I want to make sure my understanding is correct, I encountered many errors from other professional Welding engineer when I checked their work. People understand the code or specification different way.... we need to help each other for opinion, knowledge ,if you do not want to help, just s..f up and let other do, and not look down other , I believe you do not know sh.. before you getting smart A....sorry for my language, I low myself to low level as you....because I am tire of your BS...and let this post end now.where are you in China, I will come and see you for a cup of green tea.
sisi

By 46.00

Date 03-11-2012 03:47

Hi vdao,

I am very familiar with PED, having worked under their inspectorate for the past five+ years! In your case, due too the language difference, I would be asking my PED inspector these questions! These are not questions that can be relied upon internet answers! You are on very thin ground relying on answers from a internet fourm! This is 'Welding Engineer's' territory! If you cannot generate these answers yourself, then maybe your company has bitten off more than it can chew!

By nantong (**)

Date 03-11-2012 11:57

vdao it is very clear you do not know PED requirements or you would not ask these most basic questions and please cut out the abuse, it does not affect me, it's just like water of a (bombay?) ducks back.
I am looking forward to when you will post some advice to others, like I do, rather than post questions which you should know or someone within your company should know (are you a welding engineer?).