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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Single bevel groove weld
- - By Travis Collins (**) Date 01-24-2012 15:20
I have came across a weld symbol I am not for sure about. It shows a sigle bevel groove weld but shows no dimension nor does it designated CJP in the tail section. I cant find anything in D1.1 that tells me if this is complete pentration or not. Can anyone help me out with this?

                                                     Thanks, Travis
Parent - By ozniek (***) Date 01-24-2012 15:35
Hi Travis

If the bottom "point" of the bevel is seated against the arrow line, then I would interpret it to mean CJP. If there is a "gap" between the sharp point of the bevel and the arrow line, then it would indicate partial penetration, but then they need to give more information such as bevel depth. In the absence of such information, I would interpret it to be CJP.

Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 01-24-2012 15:58 Edited 01-24-2012 19:27
From AWS A2.4 98.

4.2.2 Complete Joint Penetration.
Omitting the depth of bevel and groove weld size
dimensions from the welding symbol requires
complete joint penetration only for single-groove
welds and double-groove welds having symmetrical joint geometry.

4.2.3 Partial Penetration Welds, Groove Weld Size Specified, Depth of Bevel Not Specified.
The size of groove welds that extend only partly through the joint shall be specified
in parentheses on the welding symbol.

No dimensions = CJP

Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-24-2012 18:36
Since you posted under the heading of D1 I'll quote from AWS D1.1-2008 (its sitting here in front of me).

AWS D1.1-2008 clause
The welding symbol without dimewnsions and without CJP in the tail designates a weld that with develop the adjacent base metal strength in tension and shear.

When in doubt, ask the Structural (design) Engineer. He gets a paycheck for his efforts, so make him earn that money.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Travis Collins (**) Date 01-24-2012 19:42
Thanks for the help. The other CWI at the shop told me that it should be full pentration but I had a hard time believing that was what they were actually wanting. The reason I say that is because it was welding a base plate onto a tube. It finished flush on just one side of the tube and the other three sides only called for a 1/4" fillet. We did get in touch with the engineer and were told it did not require a CJP weld, just a partial pen aquivelant to a 1/4 fillet.
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 01-24-2012 20:10
That's commen that they call for one thing, but acutally require somehting else.
It's not right, but that's just how it is.
If you serach around the posts, you'll find that detailing is a common oncern among the forum.
Yes ad drwn it called for a CJP, but like you found out, only a PJP is required.  Get it in writing to cover yourself.
Good Luck
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-24-2012 21:15
The next question is whether the wall of the tube is thick enough to give you the required throat dimension.

The throat of the 1/4 inch fillet is 0.707 x 0.25 = 3/16 (nearest 1/16 inch)

Allow 1/8 inch for incomplete fusion/incomplete penetration at the root of the bevel if you use anything less than a 60 degree bevel on the tube. Therefore you will have to bevel the tube to a depth of 5/16 inch. Now allow at least 1/8 inch for backing (a CJP single sided groove weld without backing is a "no-no").   So, the total bevel depth for the weld is 3/16 plus 1/8 for incomplete penetration at root plus an additional 1/8 as backing = 7/16 tube wall required.

Just because I'm curious, what is the wall thickness of the tube?

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Travis Collins (**) Date 01-25-2012 13:03
We were working with HSS8x8x1/2" material. We then beveled this 7/16" 45 degree bevel. Which we were confident would give us atleast our required equivalent throat for a 1/4 fillet.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-25-2012 20:17
You should be fine if you don't burn through the root face.

Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Single bevel groove weld

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