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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / skewed T-joints between 60 and 30 degrees
- - By Travis Collins (**) Date 01-26-2012 17:33
Am I reading this correctly? D1.1 clause 2.4.3.3, is saying that the shop drawings shall show the required leg dimension for the required throat and that the Z loss dimension will already be figured into their leg dimension? Or do I have to use table 2.2 along with the leg dimension to calculate the corrected leg dimension I need?

                                                        Thanks, Travis
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-28-2012 15:46 Edited 01-29-2012 11:34
Read the article in this month's Inspection Trends on the subject of measuring skewed T-joints.

The Engineer is supposed to indicate the required throat on the contract drawing (structural design drawings). Refer to AWS D1.1-2010 clause 2.3.4 (2). This throat dimension does not include any allowance for Z-loss since the structural designer does not know what companies will be bidding on the job much less than who will actually fabricate the job. Z-loss is dependent on the welding position and the welding process, so there is no way the structural engineer can specify or anticipate the Z-loss. 

The fabricator's detailer is supposed to specify the weld leg on the detailed fabrication drawings. The fabricator determines what welding process is to be used and determines what welding positions are applicable, thu the fabricator must consider Z-loss when detailing the welds. The weld leg must take into consideration the Z-loss per Table 2.2 or 2.9 (tubulars) as well as the weld throat. Refer to AWS D1.1-2010 clause 2.3.5.2 (2)

My position is that the welded skew is not a fillet weld for the simple fact that a fillet weld has to have fusion to the root (D1.1). A skewed T-joint without fusion to the root (Z-loss) isn't a fillet weld. Refer to weld profiles in editions of D1.1 prior to the 2010 editions. That being the case, a fillet weld symbol is insufficient and not appropriate. A detail of the joint cross section and the minimum dimensions for the legs is necessary. Since the leg dimension may not be a metric that can be physically measured, the distance normal to the surface of each member to the opposite toe would be more easily measured by the inspector and welder. See the attached sketches. The detailer can easily calculate the required dimensions and include them in a joint detail.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Travis Collins (**) Date 01-31-2012 14:15
Once again thanks for the help. I have read the article in the latest Inspection Trend and that is what got me thinking on this subject. All and any skewed T-joint weld symbols I have seen have always been in the form of a fillet weld. Thats the reason I began wondering if that was the actual weld leg dimension I needed of if I need to take that as the effective throat need and thus do my calculations. So I would assume in the future I should contact the detailer for a cross section detail and leg dimension?

                                        Thanks, Travis
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-01-2012 03:00
I prefer to see a section of the skew joint with the dimensions required to specify the weld in terms the welder can use and can be measured easily by the inspector.

The calculation is straight forward and easily provided by the detailer. I do not expect the welder to calculate the effective throat and the Z-loss on the shop floor. As a general rule the welder does not have access to D1.1, nor do most know the math required to make the necessary calculations.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By fschweighardt (***) Date 02-01-2012 19:59
We just send out a bid, and I had the drawing guy break out any fillet that was not 90 deg in a detail.  We put about 5 dimensions on the detail, just so the fabricator would not have to guess at ANYTHING.  Then we told the guy in out kickoff meeting "look at these pictures and tell me what you dont' understand"  He said he was fine, and I told him
"OK, if you mess this up, it's on you, you will have to build a new one for free."  He didn't blink, so I gotta figure he nderstands all he needs to.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / skewed T-joints between 60 and 30 degrees

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