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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / CWI Ethics
- - By mdagg (*) Date 01-27-2012 14:50
We hear lately all the talk, through articles in AWS publications about CWI ethics.  I have always found it interesting that it only goes one way.  If a CWI loses his job due to up holding ethical standards the AWS is unwilling to help the individual.  I find this amazingly hypocritical.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-27-2012 21:53
AWS has no authority to hold the contractor's feet to the fire unless they are certified by AWS, i.e., Certified Fabricator. Are you suggesting AWS put a banner in front of the fabricator's office with the statement, "Time out for you buddy!" The contractor has no agreement or obligation to AWS, so what is AWS going to do about it?

The CAWI/CWI/SCWI is certified by the AWS and agrees to abide by the Code of Ethics contained in QC1 as a condition of certification.

If the CWI is wrongfully discharged, there is always the slow, arduous, and very expensive court system that can be used to seek recourse.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 01-29-2012 18:02
mdagg

When the CWI looses his job for sticking to the requirements of his duty, it is unfortunate.  Sometimes it is an illegal discharge.  It is unfortunate, but it happens.  It has happened to me many times.  I get kicked off the job just because the owner is tired of having to fight the fires, and accedes to the contractors request for another inspector.  Sometimes the CWI gets accused of different things just to bolster the case for removal by the client.  I was removed by the client once because the contractor said he would repair all the defects, and then over-man the job to pick up the completion date if the client would just get rid of me.  The client acceded and had me removed, but then the contractor reneged on his promise to speed up completion and the job was still late, and the Certificate of Occupancy was delayed because the defects were not signed off!  I actually got an apology from the Client.

There are often issues in wrongful termination cases, that leave enough grey areas, which mean the CWI cannot get help even from the legal system.  It is also a fact of life that the AWS cannot help you.  AWS is just the certifying body.  It has no police powers..AWS cannot even go after most of the Code of Ethics violators, because if they are not members and not real CWIs, we can only threaten to sue them.  We can get injunctions against them, and these court orders are a lot cheaper than law suits. 

If you have a well documented case of wrongful termination, the state labor board might help.  I know of a case where a CWI was terminated by a Nuclear Plant, and he couldn't get a lawyer to help him, because there wasn't enough money in it for the lawyer.  He went to court "Pro-Se", and only won some back wages and got nothing for damages.  The utility paid a lot for it's lawyers, and got in trouble with NRC, which cost them even more money.  But some things that he asked the court for he didn't get.  He did not get his job back, and will not get hired by that utility and the rest of the plants run by that Nuclear Operating Company. 

So, even though it is not equitable, it comes with the job.

Joe Kane
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 01-30-2012 02:08
Tis a fine line we walk.

Al
Parent - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-30-2012 07:12
I will be fileing a suit with the dept of Labor. I especially didn't appreciate being
threatened by  the owner of the Steel Fabrication shop for doing my job. i had a hard
time not laughing when he told me he was unaware of what was going on. The
test lab i worked for is in cover up mode but the daily sign in sheets signed by the fab shop
reviewed by the test lab, Main Steel fabricator and the general contractor prove they were all
aware of the situation .
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 02-06-2012 03:58
Speaking of Ethics, in the January issues of Inspection Trends, at the end of your article Mr. Kane, I see that the Ethics Subcommittee is suggesting that the CWI needs to "educate" the client.  I have on occasion had to clarify areas of concern to clients and contractors and have always felt a little uncomfortable about the informality of the discussions.  It is all to easy for the person your "educating", to just out right deny any discussion took place.  Since you are a member of the Subcommittee on the Code of  Ethics, what suggestions would you have on how a CWI could protect themselves being found lax in their obligations?
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 02-06-2012 17:55 Edited 02-06-2012 17:59
99205

I do not know how you can defend yourself against outright lies.  In many jurisdictions, you cannot even record your conversations unless both parties agree.  In the cited case  cited in the article, there were enough facts left out to protect the innocent and the guilty.  I believe you can protect yourself with a "mutually agreed" recording, but that may strain relations with your client.  I have always required the client to give me a letter giving me the authority to act on his behalf, and detail the limits of that authority.  That acts as somewhat of a "Power of Attorney (Limited)".  (By the Way:  With that letter, I can issue a true "Certification" as a person acting for the head of the company, if the welders pass the qualification examinations.)

I personally usually always look at the complaints with a jaundiced eye.  For my part on the Subcommittee, I look for reasonable evidence to show that there is a real "Smoking gun" before I vote to ask for a hearing panel.  I also look to see that there is a violation of some article of the Code of Ethics, and not just "dissatisfaction" on the part of the complainant. In my mind, I play the devils advocate on both sides of the argument as it is presented in the complaint.  All the members of the Subcommittee try to feel out to be sure there is not just some Union / Non-Union politics driving the complaint.  All the members of the Subcommittee take the job seriously.  We are somewhat like a "Grand Jury".  After the Subcommittee votes, it's role is finished!  The vote on the Subcommittee Ballot is not always unanimous!

When when the case is recommended for Hearing Panel action, the AWS Attorney gets involved and a series of other steps take place.  There is either some sort of "Consent Agreement" (like a "plea bargain") or the complaint is withdrawn.  If there is no "Consent Agreement", the AWS President appoints a "Hearing Panel" and the case is presented by the "Complainant" to that hearing panel, which evaluates the case, (with guidance from the AWS Attorney), deliberates, and issues a ruling. 

  The "Complainant" actually becomes the "Presenter"  (like a "Prosecutor") in the hearing.  The "Presenter's" (Complainant) credibility and knowledge are also evaluated by the Hearing Panel.  The burden of proof lies with the "Presenter" (Complainant), but the hearing panel members decide what is "proved" and "not proved."  There may also be an attorney for the complainant and the CWI involved, who also get to speak during the hearing. 

Even when the Hearing Panel has issued it's findings, and issued a ruling, there is an appeal step available.  In one case (More than 25 years ago,) A CAWI altered his certificate and stamp to make himself a CWI, worked on a government contract for a year and signed the job off as a CWI.  After the job was done, he passed the CWI exam at the CWI level and became a "real" CWI.  Then, two years later, the government auditors caught up with his fraudulent CWI status, and the complaint was filed.  There was no real question about the facts, and the guilt.  The Hearing panel voted the revoke the CWI status, and ban him from taking the exam and becoming a CWI again for ten years.  That man then "appealed" on the basis that he needed the CWI certification to earn a living and support this wife and four children.  The AWS Board of directors agreed, and he was allowed to sit for the CWI exam sooner,  passed the exam and become re-certified in less than two years.

In the case cited in the recent Inspection Trends Article, the "Complainant" seemed to be quite sure that he asked for a "National Registry" certification, and the CWI ignored him and gave his welders qualification exams to D 1.1.  The CWI did not tell the complainant that he was not an "Accredited Test Facility", and therefore could not give the monitored qualification testing required to get the welders listed on the National Registry. The fact that the "Complainant" knew what the National Registry was, added credibility to his complaint allegation.  That CWI may be able to refute that claim or at least raise doubt.  For our part as the Subcommittee, we are not "Judge Jury and Executioner".   I will not say what the subcommittee decision was in that real case, nor elaborate on what happened since. 

The members of the Subcommittee just read the complaint, decide whether there are credible listed violations of an Article of the Code of Ethics, evaluate the supporting evidence and recommend that nothing be done, or  that the AWS President form a Hearing Panel.   Many times we vote "NO", because the complaint is defective for one or more reasons, or because the allegation is not credible. or because there are not enough exhibits (evidence) supporting the allegation. 

Joe Kane
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 02-07-2012 01:38
Thank you for this reply.  Your post answered all of the other questions I had lined up.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / CWI Ethics

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