Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / essential variables??
- - By Bubba01 (*) Date 02-15-2012 12:37
Hello all, I would anyones input on this Please. If you do a PQR with a welding machine that has a computerized mode selection on it. lets say for example I run a procedure on mode 105 and my amps are 250 and volts are 25 for FCAW process. And another mode would be 150 and the amps would 350 and the volts would be 35. If I listed  both modes on a Wps for difeerent positions would that be acceptable??  If both of them passed X-Ray and mechanical testing. Just curious Thanks for any  input.
Parent - - By PWCameron (**) Date 02-15-2012 15:32
I do that all the time.  I have 2 PQR's (or more) and use them to qualify a single WPS.
Just be clear on your WPS if the different WFS and Voltages are for different positions or progressions.
PWC
Parent - - By ozniek (***) Date 02-16-2012 11:01
Hi

I am assuming that we are talking AWS D1.1. Can you tell me what clause in AWS D1.1 allows you to "mix and match" two different PQR's on a single WPS? While I also do this, I have been challenged regarding the validity of this, and while my answer makes sense to me, it does have "holes" in from a code point of view. Hoping you have a better answer!

Regards
Niekie
Parent - - By PWCameron (**) Date 02-16-2012 11:35
Well, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed... but I'm still considered a tool.

Your question is a little like, "Where does it say a book can be printed in blue ink?"

A (non-pre-qual) WPS shall be qualified & shall be documented.  You are doing that when you use 2 PQR's on a single WPS.  I could seach the code high and low, I may not find where it states I can use the 2 PQRs, but consider this (plus I gotta get to work so I'm short on time).

Let's say I want to make an All Position WPS for welding tubing.  Table 4.1 tells me that if I do a PQR in the 2G and 5G positions my WPS is qualified for all position.  Correct?

Qualified and documented baby! Qualified and documented.
PWC
Parent - - By rshanks (**) Date 02-16-2012 13:39
Take a look at AWS B2.1 (2005) @ 2.0 Procedure Qualification @ 2.1.6 A wps may require the support of more than one PQR, while one PQR may support a number of wps's. Compatible PQR's using different qualification variables may be combined to support one wps.
Parent - By PWCameron (**) Date 02-16-2012 22:46
"BAM!"
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 02-17-2012 00:04
Hi Nieke,

Can't actually find anything in 2004 or 2010 but this old interpretation seems to cover it ?

Subject:
Code Edition:’ Dl.1-84
Code Provision: Subsection 5.1.3
Combination of Qualified and Prequalified WPSs
AWS Log: D1-85-019
Inquiry: Does 5.1.3 permit a welding procedure to be used that combines a welding procedure qualified in
accordance with 5.2 for the root of the weld and a prequalified procedure for the remainder of the
weld?
Response: Yes. A combination of qualified or prequalified joint welding procedures may be used without
qualification provided the limitation of essential variables applicable to each process is observed.

Regards,
Shane
Parent - - By ozniek (***) Date 02-18-2012 03:55
Hi Shane

Thanks for pointing me to this interpretation. The new versions of D1.1 do not have Subsection 5.1.3, so could not get the context of this interpretation. (The oldest version I have is 1998, and even there, this subsection does not exist.) None the less, I think it is clear enough to at least allow somebody else to give me the "benefit of the doubt" in this argument. Is there anybody out there with a 1984 version of D1.1? Mind posting subsection 5.1.3 here?

At any rate, my justification to combining PQR's, or using only one process from a multi-process PQR, was always based on section 3.6.1, (I will attach it to the bottom of the post.) but arguably this does not necessarily allow the mixing and matching (or deletion of a process) in ONLY PQR's qualified to section 4 of the code, but an exercise in logic generally leads people to the conclusion that it should also be equally applicable to PQR's qualified in terms of section 4.

Thanks for that. - Another piece of ammo for the fight!

Regards
Niekie
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-19-2012 19:44
That clause pretty much says it all.

Al
- - By magesh (*) Date 03-25-2012 06:24
SUB:Different PQR make one WPS

1.We conducted  3 individual PQR  the Position  2G,3G,4G (code AWS D1.1). According to this PQR's we prepared one WPS. In this WPS  mentioned  Position F,H,V,OH.

2.The welding Parameters has been calculate by taking the average of 3PQR reading. The final result will be calculate by increasing and decrease 10% of value of average result .

In this WPS submitted to client. After review the client mentioned below commands.

Client Commands:

" I am  having trouble understanding how you can take 3 different weld tests and use the average for your WPS, especially when the welding parameters and the weld sequence vary considerably, which means it is outside the requirements of the standard and also the "single PQR" it was based on. Could you please review the documentation and resubmit."

Please help me How to explain regading above commands? where we get the answer in the code book.(AWS D1.1)

Thanks
Parent - By ozniek (***) Date 03-25-2012 12:23
Hi

See my answer in other post. Best to start your own thread when asking a new question. Also only post it once, as it causes confusion when the answers are given in two different places by different people.

Regards
Niekie
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / essential variables??

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill