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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / My thoughts on John Wormellis CPWI V.S. AWS CWI
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- - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-26-2012 18:32
I just attended a three day course by John's National Welding Inspection School in Brenham TX.  Going into it I expected it to be somewhat like the week long AWS precourse before the test and that wasn't the case at all. As far as inspection in the line of work I do it was more intune to my field and covered in alot more detail of the inspection practices of pipeline work. The hundred question test to get certed I thought could have been alittle more strigent and I thought that they let you take it from the comfort of your hotel room was alittle suspect. I mean who to say who actually did the test?  Comparing that to the AWS CWI two week course that I did up at Hobart was spot on for the CWI test.  Although it is my feeling that AWS is in it for money. Maybe I am wrong. But I never figured out the whole deal about part B. (A fake code for a fake examination?)  This is just my opinion mind you that I am sharing and maybe some of you have some thoughts on it to.  But if I could mesh the two together that is what I would like to see for a standard in holding an inspection card. Johns CPWI card be alittle more stringent in the testing and AWS be either alittle more laxed or give more defined questions and answers.  Also it might be worth noting that it cost me 4k to 5k dollars after it was all said an done to get my aws card (seminar, hotel, gas, food, test) compared to roughly 1200 dollars after all said an done for a card by John's school. Also worth noting is John's school is recognized by the gas company I am working for as a level 2 and the aws cert as a level 1. The two things that I would like to see out of both sides that niether one of the two talk about or cover is the paper work and hydrotesting. I seem to do alot of both as new inspector transitioning out from under the hood.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-26-2012 20:00
Question is: "Who else beside the one gas company you are working for recognizes John's certification?"

Anyone can issue a certification for any purpose. It has little or no value if it isn't recognized by anyone other than the individual offering it.

John, Billy, or Bob, or even I can provide training and certification under the banner of "Worlds Only and Damn Bestest Inspection University in the Universe" and issue a certification card printed in gold ink. I can also offer training and qualification examinations in accordance with SNT-TC-1A or AWS B5.2. The issue is who recognizes the certification?

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-26-2012 20:19
Al that is a great point.... And the answer to that is more than you think.  Yes you are right mister Joe Bob can put on a class offer a card.  There is alot of companies that recognize mister J.W.'s seminar and test and card as a qualified inspector. As far as in my inspection field which is sectors the heavy industrial field and pipeline field.  Just to name a few companies. Enterprise, TIC, Oneok, Turner, Parfab, Conoco, TD Willams, Center Point, XTO, Stallion, Pearl Engineering, Ect ect.
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 05-05-2012 12:15
Hillbilly delux,
As the District QA/QC Manager for TIC, I assure you TIC does not accept the CPWI. If you or anyone else applied for a QC position with TIC you would have to qualify under our SNT-TC-1A program, and as others have already mentioned, our certification that we give is only good for our company. The only certification that relieves you from this requirement is the AWS CWI, or if Petro-Chem API 570, 510 or 653.

Thanks
Jim Hughes
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 05-05-2012 14:35
Jim I have never applied for a position in QC for TIC but I have worked for you guys a few times as a rigwelder. I wont mention any names in here cause I dont feel it necessary. But I do know of one person that held a CPWI that worked on one of the compessor stations that TIC had on the Keystone project. I emailed him to find out for sure what qualified him to work for you guys. I will let you know that status when he responds back. I may have been wrong on that statement I made earlier.
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 05-05-2012 22:23 Edited 05-06-2012 03:02
Said Per his email "That he did not need it" (CWI card) to work for TIC. I want more info and inquired him about it and will update you more on your company as I find out.
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 05-06-2012 12:54 Edited 05-06-2012 16:13
Hillbilly delux,
without knowing the circumstances I can't tell what he might have been hired as. I can tell you that alot of people say they have worked for us in some form or another but actually have not. With that being said if he did work for us it was not because he held that cert. I can assure you that TIC does not hire CPWI's. Now what we will do is look at someones resume as a whole, previous certs included, and evaulate actual classroom time and hands on inspection hours and make a determination based on that if to hire him/her or not. But he/she would still have to qualify under our SNT-TC-1A program. The reason that is , is because we don't just hire welding inspectors all the time. There are times we hire people to perform visual inspections.  So to be clear, one person that says he worked for us as a CPWI does not make it true nor is it our policy.

Thanks
Jim Hughes
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 05-07-2012 20:03
Jim
You may as well be right. He never responded to weather or not he signed off on documentation or not. Sounded to me like he didn't want to answer that question.
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-26-2012 20:25
Al heres a second thought too.  Where does AWS have any play in the game too? Dont get me wrong but I have yet to see any AWS material written in goverment law. So what makes the AWS CWI card so special? If I am wrong please enlighten me.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-26-2012 21:35
WOW, I missed the boat in not getting John's CPWI card!!!!!

Hillbilly, in simple terms as already mentioned, ANYONE can issue a certificate for ANYTHING.  My Boss, when I worked for AWS said he could issue certificates for cake baking and sadly, he was right.

So, what makes the AWS CWI card so special?  Try nearly 40 years of success, world wide recognition (if not world wide acceptance), thousands of compentent inspectors performing MILLIONS of satisfactory inspections, a strong Ethics Committee and both Technical and Certification Committees.

What can John's program boast in comparison?

EARNED RECOGNITION, that's what makes the AWS CWI card special.
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-26-2012 22:46
Jon

LOL I hate to say regretfully you are right and regretfully I am right too.  You are right about cake baking. But compentent inspectors how so?  (Just so ya know I hold a current AWS Card) Here is an example.... Man working for Chuckie Cheese has dad that is inspector and tells him the loops to get his AWS Card. big friggen deal. So what right?  As far as your statement of "MILLIONS" Yeah I am not so sure. Been there done that and when I start to question them from the welding side(When I welded) they crawfish like a wormy fake. I am not opposing either side I was just giving my thought on the two. I have no play on one side of the fence as nor the other. I was just giving thought on what I got out of the two credentials and was hoping that maybe I am not the only one and someone would chime in on there thoughts of the two classes.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 00:11
Good points Hillbilly:lol:

Now then, of the ten's of thousands (an admitted guesstimate on my part) of CWI's out there, I'd bet a lot of $$$$ that there are thousands of competent inspectors who have performed millions of "good" inspections.

What I can say with ZERO uncertainty is I got my CWI back in late 1979 when there were only about 4,500 of "us" worldwide and then got my SCWI as soon as it came available.  Did the inspection thing for over 29 years before letting them lapse into history.  Does that make me better?  Hell no.  But it does provide a bit of history.  That CWI card has also taken me around the world and I have, most definately, earned well over a million dollars over the course of my inspection career ~ thanks in part to that CWI card.  Not sure what John's inspection card would earn me in the next 30+ years?

AWS CWI is in competition with CSWIP, IIW, CWB and a whole host of others.  In my humble opinion, I think AWS has gone a bit crazy with it's certification programs but hey, as pointed out, they are a cash cow so who can blame them?
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 01:21
Jon
I agree to that.... No more said.
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 02:58
Jon

I would agree to your statments you hit it spot on. I would love to see AWS come back into the basics.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-26-2012 21:54 Edited 04-26-2012 21:58
Recognition is the only difference between one certification and the next. As long as the certification you carry is recognized by your "market", all is well and good.

The CWI, qualified in accordance with QC1, has been written in to the building code for field inspections and it is required by many DOTs for bridge work including shop inspection as well as field inspections.

As for the cost of certification, AWS makes a ton of cash with their certification program, so does API, ASME, ASNT and every other swinging dork offering a certification. That’s what it is all about young one. You want the job to get the money, so you get certified. You pay John to attend his class. You pay either him or API for the examination and your certification. More than likely there is an annual fee to maintain the certification. Why do you think John does the training? Do you believe it is because he is a really nice guy that has nothing better to do with his time? Take a moment to stretch that thinking cap you’re wearing; do you think it just might be because he likes the money he makes by providing you with a service?

There is no universal certification that is recognized or required by everyone. Even AWS D1.1 doesn't require the inspector to be a CWI. In-house certification is appropriate for many applications including structural fabrication. The drawback of in-house certifications is the "transportability factor" of the certification when the individual moves from one employer to another.

CWIs are employed in many different industrial sectors. They are not limited to just steel framing. The QC1 credentials are recognized by most industries (unless they have a certification program that competes with AWS). If you want to see the versatility of the QC1 credential take a look here: http://www.jobsinwelding.com/  and see how many offers for employment list the CWI credential as a requirement. How many job listing require your credential?

I’m not saying your credentials do not have value. What I am saying is that your credential is recognized by your industrial sector, but it most likely isn’t recognized by other industries. As long as your customers require your credential or they at least recognize your credential, good enough. Your working and you should be happy. The problem might manifest itself when you apply for a position that isn’t in the oil patch.

As for "AWS material" being incorporated into law, I assume you are referring to AWS codes and standards and not just QC1 credentials. If that is the case, are you serious? You must be living in a cave on some remote island or you would know better than to make such a silly statement. Even API 1104 lists AWS filler metal specifications. True, API 1104 isn't a code, but it has been adopted at the federal level for cross country pipelines. I'm sure John includes something about API 1104 in his curriculum. Certainly you must remember something about API 1104? Check out API 1104 sometime, you'll be surprised to see what's in there. Even ASME has adopted AWS filler metal specifications and publishes them as SFA A5.X specifications.  ASME has been incorporated at the federal level for piping, pressure vessels, and boilers in the commercial fleet. In essence, by incorporation ASME B&PV Code into federal law that would incorporate AWS filler metal specifications. AWS D1.1 is referenced by AISC which is referenced by building codes for small and large steel framed structures. The AWS D1.4 welding code for concrete reinforcing bar is the only welding code I know of that is used in the US for welding rebar. On any type of structure, if rebar is welded, D1.4 is the governing document and it is referenced by the building codes at the state level. AWS D17.1 is used by the aerospace industry for flight hardware as well as ground support equipment and I believe it is referenced by the FAA. I don't believe I need to go further. You can do the leg work on your time.

See ya – Al
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-26-2012 23:05
Al

   Yes you are right as well but does "filler metal classifications" really play any part in law? API 1104 states all filler metals shall conform to one of the following: AWS A5.1 A5.2 A5.5 A5.17 A5.18 A5.20 A5.28 A5.29.  So yes your right, I guess yes it does. I just dont get where AWS has a big play in here. comapared to ASME B31.4 B31.8 DOT 192 DOT 195 API 5L.   Just so you know AL it is not my intention with this post to reference which is better (As I hold both) but to give my thought on the play of both of them and what I got out of the two.
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-26-2012 23:21
Im not really familiar with concrete. Maybe AWS Does have something to do with that.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 00:23
how about this one Al?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 02:36
I just hit the "Like" button.

Al:grin:
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 13:10
Bwaahaahaahaa.... That is great! :lol:

jrw159
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 05-15-2012 03:11 Edited 05-19-2012 07:06
CWI 555 Farm code Junkie read the pl question towards the last of this post. You got an answer?

All business in the front. Party in the back brother:cool:
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 04-27-2012 00:23 Edited 04-27-2012 01:33
First off... these 2 comments... "1200 dollars after all said an done for a card by John's", and "they let you take it from the comfort of your hotel room".
I can, for less than a 1/3 of that expense not even so much as have to leave my home and have a real Master's Degree in Mechanical Engineering or Metallurgy printed up from a Cayman or Bahamian Island University. And yes... in moments of weakness, I have entertained the thought of becoming a dot com college graduate....
Thank you for sharing that information. If I ever see a resume cross my desk that has a "non fake" cert from cpwi, it is going straight into the "Special Filing cabinet" right after a very entertaining interview.

Second... "A fake code" ... Not every job is written for one of the BIG 3 A's (ASME, AWS, and API) that we predominantly use in this country. The fake code as you refer to it, is to see if you can interpret and follow the information given. In my limited career, I've dealt with TACOM, NACE, Australian/New Zealand, Det Norske Veritas, Lloyd'a Registry and others. I have known a few experienced QC and NDE professionals that possessed a respectable command of one or more of the big 3 and yet failed Part B. It was designed to test your ability to perform out side your comfort zone. Some day if you have the opportunity, read some of  Lloyd's Registry that is written in a Foreign English!

Ahemmmm... "for a fake examination"... If it was such a fake exam, why did you waste time and money on the Hobart seminar? Got money to burn... So you paid $5K, and missed 2 weeks of work for a fake test??? True, you don't need no week (or 2) of schoolin to pass that fake exam.

I'm proud to have been a CWI since 1986 and have been hired on a lot of great jobs because of that cert.
I have also worked for more than one of the companies you listed and have never known any of their QC to flaunt their cpwi card... I guess they just didn't want me to feel bad with my "Fake Certification" ...
FWIW, Back in 1986, it was not a fake exam since there was no Part B. I feel remorse for my contemporaries that had to test under the fake version and didn't experience the joy of a Real Test!

Then you mention... "niether one of the two talk about or cover is the paper work and hydrotesting." Naaaaa.. I'm a welding Inspector... I just look at welds. Don't do no Hydo or paperwork.

Most of the time though, I am not a welding inspector, but a Quality Control Technician. Which means I get to be an engineer, a supervisor, an inspector, pipe fitter, print detailer, order and receive fittings, valves, pipe, consumables, soap, paper towels, etc., clean the privy, play pimp for the prez and vice prez when they come to town, and answer the fone. Just to mention a few of the daily tasks. So, responding to your quote from above in short, QC, QA and welding inspection are totally different occupations.
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 01:42
My arse supefueck I mean my hat goes off to you.... While you work for what????? 25  to 45 and some perdiem.  Just so you know I dont care about your maligant minor post. Hey you want to make a dollar or two call me. I am in the upper range of a grand and I get paid wether if I am am working or not.  Your shat that you spew on here has nothing to do with orignal post MY THOUGHTS ON JOHN WORMELLIS CPWI V.S. AWS CWI
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 04-27-2012 03:30
" Hey you want to make a dollar or two call me. "
I will as soon as my current project winds down.
Looking forward to working with you and learning your side of the business. I'm sure you have a lot to offer
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 12:52
John I know you from here along time and that you know your stuff inside and out you want a job call me I will help you with that 580 761 1877
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 01:59 Edited 04-27-2012 02:10
IT IS THE ORIGINAL POST WhICH IS WHY POSTED.   If you have indifferent feelings of your beliefs then go crap them in your own back yard AND START YOUR OWN BLOG
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 02:18
I bet you clean with your own tooth brush alot of toliet bowls
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 02:26
You are getting way out of line with your comments. Regardless of the subject, breaking into name calling and childhood taunts is out of line.
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 02:30
Yeah well tell that to the rest of your friends.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 02:35
There is a world of difference between a personal attack, and a disagreement. It is in the personal attack that you crossed the line.
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 02:45
I so hate being the bearer of bad news.
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 03:07
Well don't tell me..... Gosh dang tell some one who cares like ROSS. And Lord please forgive me and may God bless the pygmies in new guinea
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 02:43
I just want to say I am sorry for having more certs than most and working in the field of pipeline work I love making a 300k a year sitting in my aircoditioned truck watching welders sweat there arse off
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 03:41 Edited 04-27-2012 03:50
Back on track.

Certifications are a dime a dozen, well with inflation, maybe a dollar a dozen. I print them up every time someone completes a course and passes the final examination. I buy the blanks and print them out in a fashion not unlike the "Farm Code" certificate in a previous post.

Like you, I hold several different certifications issued by different organizations: SCWI, several ACCP Level IIIs, DOT welding certification, scaffolding, man lifts, erection (no not that kind of erection, the steel kind), HAZMAT, and a bunch of others that are required to get on specific work sites. At the end of the day each certification has value, but that value is limited, very limited if it does not have universal recognition and acceptance.

Much of my work does not require the QC1 credentials, but the AWS credential is nearly universally recognized. It's like that credit card advertisement, "Don't leave home without it." The QC1 credential carries weight when arbitrating a dispute, being accepted as an expert witness during a legal deposition, or working with a fabricator. No other credential I carry has the same clout as my QC1 credential. When I pull my AWS certification out of my wallet it is as if I pulled out a 45. It gets the opposing side's full attention. I then become the authority and it is rare that I am seriously challenged.

After making those rather bold statements let me say that I always check the "book" before taking a position on a subject. I was doing some UT yesterday in Yonkers, NY. The welder working with me said, "Every time I work with you, you always have that book and you always read it before you start the test. Why?"

My response was, "I'm stupid. I can't remember everything that in the books, so I rely on books so I don't make silly mistakes."

He laughed and said, "You know more about that book than anyone I've ever worked with."

I said, "It's like flying an airplane. The pilot has a checklist that he reviews to make sure everything is right before he starts the engines. I do the same thing. The book is my checklist, it tells me what to check, how to set up the instrument, and how to evaluate the information it provides."

In that case it is my ASNT credentials that are recognized and it’s the ASNT ACCP credentials that certify I am qualified to do the UT. However, it was my AWS credentials that got me on the job in the first place.

I value all my certifications, but it is the AWS credentials that is most valued by my customers and me. The reason can be rendered down to one word: recognition. My SCWI is recognized by all my clients. My clients represent a broad spectrum of industry. I work on buildings, bridges, ships, railroad rolling stock and locomotives, aerospace, petrochemical, pharmaceuticals, automotive, pressure vessels, pressure piping, boilers, if it is welded I've been called upon to inspect it. The AWS credential is universal; I don’t leave home without it. 

Three hundred grand a year, I have a way to go before I catch up to you. You must be doing something right, but your post asked what "our" opinions are on the subject of certifications. Did you get the answers you were expecting?

Best regards – Al
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 17:26
Al I would agree AWS does holds some clout when your standing up before the law.  It has always been my depostion to acquire as many certs as possible in respect to your field. Which is why I took the CPWI class offered by J.W.  It is my long time beliefe that credentials pay dividens back. So I invest my money in them when ever I can or the oppertunity arises. If I spent 5k on AWS that is fine with me because I know I will get my money back out of it. Just like the CPWI that I paid for. I have been a long time welder but I know the inspection side is a different Kat as well and it is my plan to be the best inspector as I was a welder and every opportunity that gives me a chance to learn something or get a credintial I will Carpe Diem.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 04-27-2012 03:09 Edited 04-27-2012 03:12
"Just so you know I dont care about your maligant minor post." Apparently you do.... C'mon admit it!

"I bet you clean with your own tooth brush alot of toliet bowls".............. So, that has What to do with the original post?
True, I did ramble a tad bit, so here.
Any certification test that can be taken home is not going to be well respected industry wide or by professional engineers who have Bachelor degrees.
Seems only those who have paid for John Wormellis' training have ever heard of his certification. Companies all over the world recognize and hire AWS CWIs.
I don't really care how much you claim to earn... go impress the ladies with your fat wallet...
Now, 3 days at cpwi and 14 days at Hobart means you had to lose (at a grand a day) 17K dollars plus the 6.2 thousand in tuition and associated expenses. That just seems to be a huge investment for 2 certs you think fall short.

And yes, that is just one of the many things I clean with toothbrushes. At $12.00 an hour, I am quite happy but must make all items purchased multifunctional.
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 04:37
John
   Yes you got me hot headed but who cares? right? My orginal post was not about weather if one or the other was better than than other but my thoughts on the differences between the two and maybe I didn't state that clear enough in my heading on my post. You Might Want to Read It Again. I deal with alot of engineers and if you miss read my post I can see why you clean toilets with your toothbrush for 12.00 an hour.  If you look at it from your poor mans perspective yeah it might have cost me alittle.  But whos laughing? All I know is I am laughing all the way to the bank.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 13:08
Hillbilly,
  Here is my take on the differences between the two.

AWS-CWI: Others have covered the "Part B" exam quite well so I will keep this part short. It is designed to see if a person can use a "code" they are not familiar with because if one so desires, the inspection opportunities are pretty wide open. Having attended Hobart's course I am surprised you missed or forgot about the part where they clearly explain this to you.

The difficulty of the test is quite obvious. If it is easy, any Tom Dork and Larry would be out there botching up inspections and possibly on some pretty high profile jobs where a failure as a result of incompetent inspections could mean millions of dollars and many lives lost.

Is AWS in it for the money?? Well of course they are. Nobody works for free, not me, not you, not John Wormellis, nobody.

AWS CWI is recognized by many industries and several other entities such as ASNT and the CWB offer reciprocation.

John Wormellis CPWI: I have heard this certification mentioned before but I have never seen it override AWS CWI.

Any certification that can be acquired by taking the test at the motel/home is quite suspect even by your own admission (not insinuating anything concerning your test).

I am not saying the CPWI is worthless at all but it is not comparable to AWS CWI, ASNT, or CWB.

Now I would sure acquire the CPWI certification if the opportunity arose but it is not on my list as of now due to the fact that my CWI has enabled me to acquire positions on pipelines, in refineries, in power plants, on structural jobs, B&PV shops ect.

I addition to that I have acquired my ASNT ACCP level II as well as my CWB certification as a result of having my AWS CWI.

I am pretty sure that AWS, ASNT and the CWB do not offer a reciprocation program for the CPWI and I am sure they never will as long as John Wormellis allows the tests to be taken unmonitored.

If I ever run across a situation where my other credentials are not accepted and I must acquire the CPWI it will not be a problem. From your description it sounds like a walk in the park especially considering that I could take the test in my motel room at my leisure with no one watching or timing me. EASY MONEY.

I see some big differences in the two certifications. I know what those differences mean to me as well as the people that I work for.

It is a good thing for you that it is enabling you to be successful and that is what counts. :wink:

jrw159
Parent - - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 04-27-2012 17:47
Jrw 159

   I agree completly.  Part of the reason I did post this because I think it is wrong to let you take a test in your own hotel room and be a "Quilified Inspector"  I want people to know that if it ever comes across there desk. I know of inspectors that this CWPI card is all they have because they can't pass the AWS test. Yet at the same time in my own humble opinion is aws may need to lax up abit.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-27-2012 20:42
Now you are comparing a two year community college degree with a degree from an Ivy League University.

If you have the smarts and the money you attend one of the Ivy League schools. If you lack one or the other or both, you attend community college. Again, it is the value of universal recognition.

Should Harvard or Yale become less selective and water down their course content just because there is a community college somewhere in the US that lets anyone attend? I don't think so.

A degree from an Ivy League university has recognition. It helps you get your foot in the door. Whether you succeed or not has less to do with the university conferring the degree than it does with the intellect and ambition of the individual. That being said, there is no doubt that the degree with an Ivy League name embossed on it opens more doors at a higher salary than the two year degree with Anytown Community College stamped on it.

If the two year Associate degree awarded by a local community college gets you the job you want there is no reason to pay the big bucks for the Ivy League degree.

Al
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 04-29-2012 15:45
I am evaluating two resume's for a job. Both inspectors have 10 years of experience as welders and have 5 years experience as inspectors on pipelines.
Nothing with ring knocking or secret handshakes here.
One inspector has a AWS CWI and the other has a CPWI.
Which one gets the job?
If a person wants to invest the time to get a CPWI and it makes them $$ then more power to them. But it will always be a lower level of certification than the AWS CWI. And knowing and working with many pipeline welding inspector over the years, the CPWI is about all they want.
While I have never attented John's class, I have seen the material and it is good. Attending the class will make one a better inspector. One will learn a lot of things and it will meet the requirement of API 1104 that the inspector has to have training. And his class is recoginzed as meeting that requirement of 1104 in 192 and 195. In years past the pipeline companies used to hire John and others, Frank Fearing out of League City comes to mind, to put on training classes. One thing that came out of Franks class and has stayed with me for over 20 years was my responsibilty to qualify film, not read it. I am still anal about film quality and proper handling of the film. I LOVE digital. But I am digressing.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 04-27-2012 14:00
Stan,
I have been told that I could make the Pope Cuss like a drunken sailor. Don't even try to... it's a gift/curse.
Within my blatherings, I did point out some differences and how the two certs are perceived by others in the trade.
In closing, There is no one size fits all QC/ Inspection/NDE certification. All are going to have their specific applications. Apparently in your area, the cpwi is a valuable card to have.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 05-04-2012 11:26
http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=ee2ae11f8b4532b2&q=CWI&tk=16sbn1tri06b042s&from=ja&alid=f93f9658fd994af0&utm_source=jobseeker_emails&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=job_alerts

This is the first time seeing the CPWI being accepted on a jobs board. Maybe I didn't pay attention before this thread was started.

If you are currently AVAILABLE and suited for the position listed below, Tulsa Inspection would like to hear from you. Feel free to contact us for more information or simply email resumes@tulsainspection.com with an up-to-date resume, expressing your interest in the opportunity. If you know any qualified candidates that are available, please forward this information to them and they can contact us directly or simply reply via email with an up-to-date resume expressing interest in the opportunity. Please be sure to use the reference number # 2012. This will notify us that you are currently available and ready for immediate consideration.

Technical CWI or CPWI Site inspector. Pipeline Rehab & Facilities - Reference Job # 2012

Qualified candidate will be a team player that has multiple years of experience in the oil and natural gas industry and be familiar with the industry rehabilitation techniques and practices. Candidate must have a current AWS-CWI or CPWI as a welding inspector. Candidate will have verifiable experience as a welding inspector with proven communication abilities and be able to use the tools of the trade. Candidate must be proficient in the use of a computer with the ability to communicate with management in an electronic format.

Openings provide 3rd Party monitoring and oversight for multiple positions, including but not limited to...

Integrity / Pipeline rehab
Facility Inspection
New and Existing pipelines
Candidate must be willing to travel and relocate as needed. Inspectors will be responsible for monitoring all aspects of contractors activities. Positions could be anywhere within the United States, from coast to coast. Current openings are available for immediate consideration.

Start date varies. Standard work week can vary, but are typically scheduled for 6 work days with 7 days per diem. Duration for projects vary, based on the client's needs.

Applicant Requirements:
In order to apply for this position, applicants MUST meet the following criteria. If your resume does not match these criteria, you will not be able to apply for this position.
- - By Big Sherm Date 04-29-2012 23:32
I went to the CPWI course as well and am taking the AWS CWI course shortly. I found the class to be very good and informative. Now will it hold up to the AWS cert, most certainly not; however when all of the top oil/gas, pipeline Co's are sending people from across North America, that ought to mean something. John is top-notch and will answer any questions you may have pertaining to codes, welding, materials, troubleshooting etc... And if you have a problem in the field he's only a phone call away. I was referred to the course by several inspections Co.'s and a couple diff. engineering firms as well. If that helps me get on the firing-line and make a better life than sittin under a hood 8-12 hrs a day, I'm all for it.
Parent - - By Oneatatime (**) Date 05-02-2012 04:50
https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=mw#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=cpwi+jobs&oq=cpwi+jobs&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0.713.2371.0.2643.9.7.0.2.2.1.256.1489.0j3j4.7.0...0.0.XUv0Qyd1Jt0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=60e4e617f1d73d70&biw=1366&bih=622

cpwi jobs google search, not a single one.

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=mw#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=cwi+jobs&oq=cwi+jobs&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0l4.3897.4220.3.4543.2.2.0.0.0.0.194.360.0j2.2.0...0.0.wnw4E4uc-s8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=60e4e617f1d73d70&biw=1366&bih=622

cwi jobs 507 alone on indeed.

just my thoughts, and imo, the AWS needs to make the fundamentals test harder. The SENSE level 2 is harder than the CWI test.

If these links work, id be amazed but just a little research after i wasted 10 minutes of my time reading through this blog. Although i did receive one surefire piece of information, i am hanging the farm code plaque in my office tomorrow for the students.
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 05-02-2012 05:44
"just my thoughts, and imo, the AWS needs to make the fundamentals test harder. "

YES!
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-02-2012 13:02
I'll take that to the Certification Committee.

Al
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 05-03-2012 03:27
I agree.  CWI exams IHO have perhaps not kept pace with competitors exams (this is a completely unqualified opinion by the way since the last exam I took was 1997-ish) and should be tightened up a bit.  Degree of difficuly naturally leads to increased level of respect and may tend to dissuade the "cash - cow" notion.....
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-03-2012 11:45
Jon,
  I took mine in 2003 and since then have had several other people that I know personally go and take the test. It is indeed getting tougher as time goes on. I think this is a good thing.

jrw159
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-03-2012 12:25
Jon

I think the "cash cow"  thing goes on regardless..  Just because so many people want to have the CWI credential.

The last I heard, the failure rate for first time test takers was something above 70%

That statistic leads me to believe that the test is pretty comprehensive; considering there are some professional/experience/education requirments that need to be met before one can even sit for the exam.

It's almost hard to blame the AWS for people expecting to take a 1 or 2 week seminar and be ready to sit for this exam.  For YEARS thousands of people all around the country, have been trying this and failing.  Needing to take a second or third crack to get the CWI.   Does the society make money on people who fail and retake?   Sure..  But it's not like people are going into this without fair warning.

Make the exam harder?   Sure....  Joe Kane and his ilk have dedicated their lives to this and I'm glad they do... When they are retired (He's too mean to die)  I'm sure somebody else will fill the void  :)
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / My thoughts on John Wormellis CPWI V.S. AWS CWI
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