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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / How to repair cracks
- - By Boon (**) Date 06-05-2012 15:58
On a round GT duct section (SS410) with small stiffeners welded to duct/flange, there are hairline cracks (10 to 20 mm) on the duct surface, starting from the fillet weld at the ends of the stiffeners.
First time encounter on this damage and was wondering what could be the correct way to repair, if possible.
Thickness of duct and stiffeners is 1/4".
Any comment would be appreciated.

Boon
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 06-05-2012 19:57
The fact that the cracks start at the fillet weld raises a question: do they protrude also into the fillet weld? If so, the repair is more difficult.
There's another question to answer: how deep the cracks are? Do they reach the other side of the duct plate? If so, the repair is also more difficult.

Let's be optimistic and assume that the answer to both questions is NO.
The duct thickness is low and my advice is not to use a grinding disk but a mounted stone that you can fix on a pneumatic grinder or an electrical drilling machine.
If you don't know what a mounted stone is, it's a small stone (2 inches diameter at the most) that has a short steel shaft (one inch or so) coming off its center. The shaft is tightened into the grinder or driller tips. The mounted stone periphery shape can vary: it can be flat or like an angle. In this case use an angle shaped stone.
Grind lightly the cracks until they disappear. Let's hope that you won't need to grind across the whole plate thickness.
After the cracks have been ground off, apply weld onto the resulting holes.

Warning! Don't use a silicon carbide stone (trade name Carborundum). The carbon content of the stone will deplete the chrome content of the 410 SS. Use instead an alumina stone.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By Solluz (*) Date 06-05-2012 20:35
Hi, Boon,   This sounds like thermal fatigue.  Besides grinding out and before doing a dye penetrant inspection to verify that cracks have been removed, can the fillet weld be tapered / flared into the base material to try to reduce the stress concentration where it ties into the duct ?   Not sure if the cracks go all the way thru yet, but you might need to backgrind, PT inspect background groove before welding the second side.  Wondering if you will be using preheat and what filler metal ?  Regards,  Sol.
Parent - - By Boon (**) Date 06-11-2012 11:22
We do not have a weld procedure but trying to prepare one.
Question is must SS410 be welded with pre and post heat treatment?
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 06-11-2012 13:36
This should give you the info you need.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61345623/SS-410
Parent - - By Boon (**) Date 06-11-2012 16:33
Thank you for the link。
How should we interpret “should” in the data?
Can the weld be as good without cracking in some applications or situations when performed without heat treatment?
Is it also recommended when the part had been in high temperature service for many years?

Boon
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 06-11-2012 22:06
I would think that they used the word "should" as a legal loophole.  It's recommends the use of Pre/Post heat treatment but it's not demanding the use.  So the end user takes all the responsibility for the performance of the weld.  My suggestion to you, would be to contact and engineer who has experience with this metal.
Parent - - By Boon (**) Date 06-05-2012 23:08
Have not started any repair work.
Seems to be no crack on the fillet weld, only the duct plate.
I am also thinking if the crack is through the thickness.
Very likely as it is only 1/4".
It is more difficult as there is no access to the other side.
Besides grinding till crack disappear, feasible to add small plate on top with fillet weld? More thermal stress?

Boon
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 06-05-2012 23:39
I agree with welding a small plate on top of the repair. However, don't make the plates too small. I'd say that the plate should extend 10 - 12 mm (3/8 - 1/2 inches) at both sides and both ends of the repair.
This is only a guess, because I havn't had the chance to take a look at your problem.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 06-06-2012 01:17
GT = Gas Turbine? Which part of the gas turbine does this duct attach to? Depending on where it is located, gas turbines develop a lot of heat.  410 SS tends to develop very high hardness levels in the as-welded condition with very little ductility.  The heat affected zone would be sensitive to vibration fatigue, thermal fatigue (such as heat up and cool down during starts & stops) or stress corrosion cracking (if moisture is present). I've seen 410 SS shaft sleeves on hydro plant turbines crack in ambient river water environments.  If the cracks tend to follow the toe of the weld in the HAZ, it is likely fatigue. If they they to wander and are branching, could be SCC. A photograph would help. 400 F minimum preheat helps keep the cooling rate and hardness down.
Parent - By Solluz (*) Date 06-06-2012 17:58
Boon,  I suspect that a plate, if properly designed and welded would re-distribute and reduce any thermal stresses, but before adding a plate,  I'd suggest discussing that with a designer if you have one on staff.      Regards, Sol.
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 06-12-2012 09:44
Boon
I am not knowledgeable in Stainless, not enough room in my brain I guess.:cool:
But once a long time ago, I was asked to repair the inner stack liner of the forward Smoke Stack on the destroyer I was on. We had been to the Yards while R&R'ing in Hawaii just a couple of weeks before and they had done a quick repair on it and buttoned it up and we headed back to the gun line.
Seems the heat they applied while welding the patches on caused the original Stainless to start cracking out from their welds. And the stresses from a combination of things like the constant winding up and down of the fans for the force draft boilers and the continuous firing of the 5" guns fore and aft were not helping. Seems the Officers quarters were in close proximity and the vibrations were disturbing their sleep. :sad:  We secured  numbers 1 & 2 Boilers and I crawled in.
The only way I could stop these cracks in their trek across the plate was to drill holes at the end of the crack and then weld them up.
It worked.
I was just a 19 year old kid, @ 6 months out of boot camp, the only weldor on-board and knew even less about stainless then than now.\

But felt reminiscent of that place and time ever since I first read your post.

Good Luck
Marshall
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 06-12-2012 19:27
What a splendid Marmaduke Surfaceblow story it would give if Steve Elonka was still alive !!
What? Don't you know who Marmaduke Surfaceblow is? Wasn't he your shipmate on board of the destroyer you served on?

I've always admired the Navy and merchant marine and admired still more Navy and merchant marine engineers.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / How to repair cracks

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