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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / 7018 weave issues? Or my paranoia?
- - By LHoage (*) Date 06-24-2012 21:43
I've been practicing 1/8th 7018 weaves in flat position lately. I'm using 3/8th plate for Tee or Corner practice. The welds come out to be close or exactly 3/8th in size with no visible discontinuities after cleaning. My amps are at around 120-125. The problem I think I'm having is when I'm tying in the bottom plate. Although this is the flat position, the weld puddle or the liquified slag appears to follow and jump ahead of my welding rod. The amount of time this happens is fairly short, but it just doesn't feel right. It appears as if the rod is wading/splitting the buildup out of it's way while moving into the pause to tie in state. Again, the appearance of the weld is fine after cleanup, but I'm curious that this may not be the same case for inside the weld.

What exactly is going on?
Am I keeping my weave too tight?
Parent - By Pickupman (***) Date 06-25-2012 01:10
Sounds like arc blow to me. It's not uncommon in tight areas where the magnetic forces are concentrated. dbigkahunna, aevald, or some of these other Doctors of Weldology can probably tell you exactly how to minimize or eliminate it all together.
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 06-25-2012 01:58
Your heat is about right, but try using a forward angle with your rod, (dragging). If you keep your rod tilted forward and your heat is right, you should be able to keep your puddle just right, instead of overtaking you.

Also, if your coupon is less than flat, you could be slightly down hill, which is usually going to create the problem you're having. 7018 is actually a multi position rod, but unless your heat is crankin and you're moving out, it's not a good scenario. Try keeping your work just slightly uphill, even if it means starting at the other end of your coupon.

One more thing: pay more attention to what your arc is doing, because you could be long-arcing and allowing the puddle to scoot right under your rod. The closer you are with your arc, the less that puddle will want to move under your arc. Simple physics.....just quit worrying so much about sticking the rod, and use a little more heat if you have to.

I'm on a lot of jobs where I'm burning boxes and boxes of LH rod, especially horizontally, (mud tank builds, etc,). Low hydrogen rod will almost run itself at a forward angle, if your heat is right. Before you know it, you're out of rod and the sun's going down.....:lol:
Parent - By hillbilly delux (***) Date 06-25-2012 14:20
If it is infact arc blow.  Try starting up at the end of the plate and terminate in the middle and then strike up at the other end and work your way to the middle tying back into your previously deposited weld.   You can also try wraping your leads around your work piece four or five times in one direction or the other (depends wether it positively magnitized or negitively magnitized) Atleast thats how we cancel it out on pipe.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-25-2012 17:14
Okay, Interrupting my vacation to throw in my own two tin pennies worth here...

If you are using 1/8" 7018 electrodes to develop a 3/8" Fillet weld in a Tee or Corner weld while practicing "weave" techniques then that in itself should explain the problem.  The slag is coming around your arc because you are really pushing the limits in every way.

1) Use 5/32" electrodes instead and run at about 150 amps. 
2) The electrode should  be angled slightly behind (dragging the weld pool) from the electrode holder and your direction of travel.
3) Use a very slight weave not a lot of movement side to side (many people think of 'weaving' as being quite a bit of side to side movement that actually allows the slag to come around your arc and then cool too much before you get back to the other side) thus keeping the weld pool and slag very molten as you 'weave'.  The arc force will usually push the molten slag out of the weld root when it is hot enough. 
4) When welding tee and corner welds you may even want to be pointed straight into the joint instead of the slight drag and as you weave use a 'SLIGHT' triangular motion that burns into the root good, similar to some of the vertical up movements with a hesitation on each side and up into the root.  (I did say 'similar' to, it won't be exactly the same).
5) Keep the arc short and tight, I can generally FEEL the flux dragging on the steel as it is burning off with the electrode. 

Without seeing and/or testing your pieces it is hard to know if you are indeed trapping slag under the weld in the root of the joint.  But I would suggest these changes to reduce the possibility of that happening.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By LHoage (*) Date 06-26-2012 14:51
I've adjusted my technique based on advice from several of you and it seems to be working out much much better. Thanks again for all the help!
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 06-26-2012 17:52
LHouage,
you are carring to much material. A 3/8" fillet, flat with 1/8" E7018 is to much to try to do in one pass in the flat position. Try multiple passes. Typically a fillet weld that size would be at least 3 passes. My opinion of coarse.

Jim
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 06-27-2012 04:15
3/8's is not that big, guys.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-27-2012 18:26
Interesting,

I would agree, 3/8 isn't that big on one hand.  BUT, it is larger than I would recommend trying to carry within proper perameters for a 1/8" 7018 electrode and be able to show the ever vigilant Al that your 3/8 fillet pass done in a single pass could pass a fillet break test.  And he specifically stated he was weaving which adds more complication to keeping the slag out of the root of the fillet.

As we have taken a break to take our pastor and his wife to HI and I don't have any of my code books here with me, shouldn't even be looking at this forum, I'm not sure that that size fillet weld is even acceptable within all the boundaries discussed.  Generally you would want to be 5/16" or smaller with a single pass and especially with a 1/8" electrode.

But, it is only observation and opinion.  You and the OP are both totally free to do what ever your little heart desires.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-27-2012 18:32 Edited 06-27-2012 19:41
I agree with Brent...typically here at our shop we consider anything larger than 5/16 to be a multipass weld. We use a 3/32" FCAW that really pours out some liquid steel and failure rates will climb anytime we get above a 5/16 fillet in a single pass. If you go by Table 3.7 for prequalified fillet welds the only position a 3/8" fillet is allow to be run in a single pass is in the FLAT...any other position, a multipass weld is required to remain pre-qualified.

If you can run a PQR witha single pass 3/8 fillet and pass everything, then good...go for it.

EDIT: I should have looked it up in D1.1 before spouting off.....
for prequalified WPSs
SMAW flat 3/8 max fillet single pass
SMAW horizontal 5/16 fillet single pass
SMAW vertical 1/2 fillet single pass
SMAW overhead 5/16 fillet single pass
Parent - - By rcwelding (***) Date 06-27-2012 19:27
I can pour a lot more Iron in going up hill than I can flat.  I love to make a 1/2in  and up to a 3/4in cap with a 3/32  7018.   For me to make a 3/8 weld flat I would prefer to use a 5/32  7018 and run it about 170.
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 06-27-2012 23:31
That's the kind of weave inspectors don't like to see....
Parent - By Rafter_G_Weldin (***) Date 06-30-2012 05:01
I've been building pump brackets for vacuum trucks out of 3/8 plate running 1 pass 1/8 7018 and it leaves a bead about 1/2" wide
No weaving just burn it hot and drag it. Its a corner weld on the flat position. There is no WPS  to follow and no inspector except my boss I get stuck w doing it cuz nobody but me in the shop caN burn 7018.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 06-27-2012 23:41
John,

While 3/8 is the max for SMAW,  Flat is in a vee trough down flat with both legs at a 45* angle.  If one leg is vertical and one flat then it is a horizontal.  Not many shops put their Flats truly Flat.

Also, I would still consider 1/8" electrode to be small to carry a GOOD 3/8 fillet and be able to trust the root.

Have a Great Day,  I am, HI is great any time of year,  Brent
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 06-28-2012 11:20

>Not many shops put their Flats truly Flat.


You're right Brent....flat is sort of hard to position correctly to be truly flat.
- By LHoage (*) Date 06-25-2012 14:41
Alright I'll give this a try. Thanks for the advice.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / 7018 weave issues? Or my paranoia?

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