E100XX on 50ksi material

Date 07-25-2012 20:24

My WPS's will not cover any of this welding, so I will have to run PQRs...but I wanted to get some input from someone who has dealt with E10018's before wasting any time and money on it. Table 3.1 only shows matching strengths and everything in Group II (ASTM A572 Gr50) is only pre-qualified for 70ksi fillers....Group III material gets up into the 80ksi range, and Group IV is 90ksi...so pre-qualified WPSs are out of the question, the way I see it.

By Tommyjoking (****)

Date 07-25-2012 22:38

Above my pay grade. But I have welded bookoo 80,90,100,120 on heavy equipment repairs etc. You did not state what the base material is or the chemistry of the filler. I assume low alloy steel and typical lohy filler. Is there any kind of preheating or pwht involved? As far as it being doable..yes.....I would guesstimate you will not notice much diff in DT save maybe side/lateral bends "might" fail a little lower pressure then with your 70k filler. Seems like a waste of rod and time. Can you kick the ball back up to the engineer/client and say WTF? Sometimes they just need to point out the misconception to them....I do it all the time. Is this on NEW material or on repairs? Odd for someone to declare such a combination...I know, no help at all but hey.....

By fschweighardt (***)

Date 07-25-2012 22:45

You are definately out of the prequalified business. Does the contract specify seismic or any other special tests.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 07-26-2012 12:38

Didn't see any references to D1.8 or anything obvious that stuck out in the contract docs, still need to check out the local building codes in that area to see if something is mentioned there.

By TimGary (****)

Date 07-26-2012 11:29

I agree that pre qual does not apply.
D1.1 says that when mismatching base metal strengths, say 50 to 100 ksi, a filler metal matching the higher strength is to be used, but a filler metal matching the lower strength may be used as long as it's a low hydrogen process.
I realize this doesn't apply, but in a way, it may help you feel a little better about the mismatch.
In your case, with the filler being so much stronger than the base, I would be concerned about toe cracking through out the HAZ and fatigue strength.
You could probably control this with a detailed pre and post heat procedure in order to slow the cooling rate, with the temps selected based on that required for the filler rather than the base.
Also, I would recommend strict weld profile tolerances, designed to ensure a smooth transition of weld to base, in order to minimze stress risers to help with fatigue life.
Bends and tensiles are another story. It will be interesting to see how that turns out.
Any idea why they specify that mismatch? It may be a case of a well meaning but unknowledgable person involved who would benefit from a little guidance, especially considering the additional cost this possibly unecessary requirement adds to the project.

Tim

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 07-26-2012 12:36

After talking with my LWS, they stock E11018 and was encouraging me to purchase that(most likely because it's in stock and they can deliver quickly). They also made note that they can get the 100ksi fillers in a FCAW wire for us, so that is good to know seeing that there are hundreds of moment connections on this project.

After digging in the contract dwgs a bit further yesterday evening, we found on the general notes page where they specify that all welding is to be done with E70XX electrodes...LOL. Now with the (seemingly) conflicting notes specifying 70ksi and 100ksi in different places in the notes, I suppose if we persue this project, I need to write an RFI to get this mess cleared up. Also noted was SS 1/2" continuous bent plate, bent way past 90° in several of the sections cut through the building along the roof and exterior. That is something that will have to be addressed as well. We have never had any bent plate that bent past 90° not crack on the outside of the bend. Lots of other issues with this bid that we are not comfortable with as well....so this project may get passed on and not bid at all. No delivery schedule nailed down yet, so...unless it delivers next year, we can't do it anyway due to the back log that is on the books.

By qcrobert (***)

Date 07-26-2012 12:54

You're on the right track beginning with an RFI but make sure that it is directed to the PE of the AFC dwgs. Only the PE can make determination of the correct filler metal to be utilized. Then you can pursue the Originator of the contract.

I've seen where the contracts are drawn up from notes of the estimator or sales rep and thus are way out of line. :eek:

As far as the bent plate, is this plate to be rolled or "bumped" in a shear? We bump everything from carbon to stainless, T-1, Tricon, AR500, etc..

QCRobert

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 07-26-2012 13:16

Do you guys have any problems when bending the plate way past 90°?

It's funny because they have 1/4" CS bent plates where the 1/4" plate will be subjected to heavy roof loads and 1/2" SS bent plate supporting nothing but insulation. IDK, maybe common sense is a thing of the past.

By qcrobert (***)

Date 07-26-2012 20:41

Well I have to take back my statement and say we can bend 1/2" SS plate approx 4' width to 90-110 deg on our 230 ton press using a 4" die.

To form that thk would take a bigger press to take it past 110 deg.

Check around and sub that portion out and incl in bid.

Let us know how it progresses.

QCRobert

By 99205

Date 07-26-2012 00:48

Interesting issue. This Lincoln site has a few bits of info you might find interesting.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/en_US/Products/Consumable_StickElectrodes-MildandLowAlloySteels-Excalibur-Excalibur10018-D2MR/c2109.pdf

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 07-26-2012 12:09

Wow thanks for all of the response so far...I'm still reading and taking in what I understand. Heading over to look at 99205's link after I get caught up this morning on all of my UT inspections.