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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Fillet Size Interpretation, D1.1, Section 5.14, Table 5.8
- - By MHart Date 08-03-2012 14:34
It appears that at my place of work we have some difference in the interpretation of the last line in Table 5.8:
1 Any base metal thickness over 3/4" requires a min of 5/16" fillet
2 Table only applies to base metal thicknesses up to 3/4"
I am looking for additional interpretations or opinions, please comment.
Thanks in advance.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-03-2012 15:20 Edited 08-03-2012 15:23
My take is that the 5/16" min. fillets are for materials thicker(note the greater symbol) than 3/4".
3/4<T = 5/16" min.

the line above that line in Table 5.8 reads like this:
1/4" min. fillets are for materials greater than 1/2", up to and including 3/4" thick.

EDIT: Take note of what the Commentary C-5.14 has to say about the min. sized fillet welds...it explains the thought process behind the Table 5.8.(deals with the pre-heat issue of most single pass fillet welds)
Parent - - By paulc Date 08-03-2012 17:25
This means that it does not matter how thick the two plates connected are, above 3/4" thick, that a 5/16" minimum fillet may be applied?
I assumed that the last line meant that of the two members making up the "T" joint for a fillet weld connection, the thicker member joined would be above 3/4" thick, and the thinner member would be up to 3/4" thick.  Anything above this would be a larger fillet weld.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-03-2012 17:32
Yes, I've seen 4" thick base plates on a "static"(no uplift, or shear) column with only a 5/16" fillet holding the plate to the shaft.
...but remember that Clause 2 is still applicable, so somebody needs to do the calcs to make sure that a 5/16" min fillet is sufficient to carry/transfer the intended load(s) in that joint.
Parent - - By MHart Date 08-03-2012 17:33 Edited 08-03-2012 18:19
This seems to be the problem, how to read the line:
1: if 3/4 is less then T (left to right) as in the case of the 3 post
2: if T is greater then 3/4 (right to left) second post
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 08-03-2012 18:15
Don't forget "T" stands for thickness.
The thickness of the material.
So I read the first line as Thickness of less than or equal to 1/4", minimum fillet size is 1/8"
from 1/4" to up to and equal to 1/2" is 3/16" fillet.
from 1/2" up to and equal to 3/4" is 1/4"fillet
over 3/4" is 5/16.
Hope this helps
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 08-03-2012 18:42
Yes the "T" stands for material thickness at the point of welding...also take into consideration the notes below the Table that apply.

again...see the commentary for further explaination to the reason behind specifying the "minimum" weld sizes in this table.
Parent - - By MHart Date 09-12-2012 12:37
Sorry to bring this up again, but I am not sure I got the correct answer. Does table 5.8 apply to materials greater then 3/4"?

Below is the same table form CSA W59 which is the Canadian equivalent to D1.1, see Table 4.4. My opinion is that the table 5.8 from D1.1 only applies to joining materials with fillet welds where the thinner of the two pieces being joined is less then 3/4", please feel free to agree or disagree.
[img][/img]
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-12-2012 13:04
[ 3/4<T ], shown in Table 5.8 of D1.1 and your Table 4.4 of CSA, means thicker than 3/4...so I'm not sure how you are reading that this chart is only for 3/4 or less when it gives direction for the minimum fillet weld for when materials are thicker than 3/4.
- - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-12-2012 23:43
The problem qppears that the used does not understand the meaning od the symbols for less than or equal to, less than, and greater than.

Al
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 09-13-2012 00:12
What you been sipping on Al? I have never seen so many spelling errors from you in one post since I started coming here 5 years ago.:eek::razz:

And to the OP,  if Al is correct, the best way I always remembered the less than/greater than symbols was to think of them as a hungry  open mouth going for the larger portion of food(number)
if that makes any sense.
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 09-13-2012 10:23
I can't read canadian :wink:
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 09-13-2012 14:24
It's spoken "aboot" the same as down in the 48 aye...
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 09-14-2012 03:35
Blame it on exhaustion.

Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-13-2012 14:35 Edited 09-13-2012 15:49
Ok maybe that is the problem.
EDIT#2 added picture that has symbols on it



edit
I tried to add Alt+242 to show the Less than and/or Equal to symbol, and the Alt+243 to show the Greater than and/or Equal to symbol, but the forum software doesn't allow some of the Alt codes to work, neither will it let you use the < and > with an underline font attribute.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-13-2012 14:51
In case someone is wondering what  "Alt codes" are.....
Take a look at this: http://www.tedmontgomery.com/tutorial/altchrc.html

Press the "Alt" key and any of the numbers in that list to type an "Alt code" character

For instance here is one that works with the forum software "Alt248"

It was 55°F this morning when I left home. between the 55 and the F is Alt+248 or " ° "
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-13-2012 14:57 Edited 09-14-2012 14:36
Sometimes it is not so much knowing which symbol is which, as much as knowing how to put them in order when it reads thus:  3/8 < T < 3/4. We know that both symbols are the 'less than' symbol.  But many people really get confused trying to figure out what size is indicated.  Since it does not have, in this example which is one of the lines of Table 4.2, the 'equal to' line under the 'less than' symbol we are referring to a piece which is larger than 3/8" and smaller than 3/4" wall thickness ( 'T' ).  If the 'equal to' line were included then whichever side it was on would be inclusive of that dimension as well.  Put it in with the first 'less than' arrow and it would mean that 'T' is equal to or greater than 3/8" but still less than 3/4" (even if only a couple of thousandths less, use your micrometer if need be, your 3/4" plate may only be .73 which would allow it's inclusion). 

Now if you look at Table 4.2 you will notice the lines just above and just below the one I used include the 'equal to' line under the symbols which means they include the thicknesses excluded by the line I used as my example.  So you start with material equal to or greater than 1/8 and go up to and including 3/8 (1/8 ≤ T ≤ 3/8), then you go to larger than 3/8 and up to not quite 3/4 ( 3/8 < T < 3/4), and finally from equal to 3/4 to anything larger than 3/4 (T ≥ 3/4). 

The reading of the symbol is not necessarily the problem here but the reading of the combination of symbols in an equation to find 'T'.

Have a Great Day,  Brent

Thanks guys, hopefully that will make it make even more sense.  Let's see... John gave one and Ctacker another, so ( º and/or ♀- nope, ♂ nope, nuts, going to have to look back at John's post, Ctacker's worked).  ° Ah ha, both work: 'alt' 248 or 167.  Either way you get the degree symbol.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-13-2012 15:50
Brent,
I understand the confusion...I'm getting confused just trying to explain it....LOL
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-13-2012 20:50
I know what you mean.  And I am having the same problem with not getting the 'alt' function to work.  Must be doing something wrong somehow.  That is typical for me and computers though. :lol:

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By FarmCode (*) Date 09-13-2012 22:31
Cactus > Everybody else

/thread
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 09-14-2012 04:03
Brent, you need to hold the alt key down while hitting the ASCII code, for example, for the Degree circle º, ( use the number pad, not the numbers above the keyboard)  press and hold ALT then hit 1 6 7 and release ALT. should give you º
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-14-2012 12:31
Thank you.  I was holding the alt key down but using the numeric keys along the top.  I'll try the other.  I would think either would work but maybe not.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-14-2012 12:56
Brent only a few of these work here in the forum...try it in MS Word or in a blank email....they should work.
Yes, number key pad only...the keyboard will beep at you if you try using the numbers along the top.
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-14-2012 14:22
Notice my above 'editted' post.  The ≥ (242) and ≤ (243) both work as well as both º (167) and ° (248). Definitely had to use the 'Calculator' numeric keypad to the side and not the numerals along the top edge of the keyboard.

And I actually tried it on here because as someone else noted, it seems like some items that work under most circumstances don't always work on a forum.  Now we have proof that it does work here.  And if it works for ME... It should work for anyone... :lol: :eek: :roll: :wink:

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 09-14-2012 14:45
Thanks Brent.
Here's what I'm getting with Alt+242 --->    =

Not the desired result
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-14-2012 15:11
Interesting.  I'm thinking that is because of either your brower, operating program, or internet server.  Definitely not because of the forum's service or it would not have worked for me.  You have me curious, so tonight I will run this past my geek son and see if we can contribute anything of value for everyone here. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 09-14-2012 15:53
Okay, I felt the need to come back and try to clarify according to the OP's question who stated he wasn't sure he had gotten the correct response as yet.

I should have been using Table 5.8 for my example of symbols instead of just grabbing one, Table 4.2, and running around like an idiot.

So,  If one follows the rest of this thread through to see what has been said about the combination equations and makes sure of this one thing from Table 5.8... the last line, '3/4 < T' does not mean that materials are less than 3/4" even though the text has the 'less than' symbol used.  It must be read in it's proper context and order.  It means that 3/4" material dimensions are thinner than 'T'.  Which then means, 'T' is greater than 3/4".  And, since the 'equal to' line is not used below the 'less than' symbol, it does not INCLUDE 3/4" material.  Only those materials thicker/heavier than 3/4" (.75" and/or 20 mm).

Now, this is in reference to the 'Base-Metal Thickness'.  But, read the footnotes.  'T' can equal the thickness of the thinner part.  Base metal needs to be defined.  It is not necessarily the heavier member nor is it the main structural member.  The term only applies to the base metal as compared to filler metal.  For example, a A992 Wide Flange Column welded to a base plate by fillet welds.  The base plate is heavier than 3/4".  The WF is 5/8".  You would want a 1/4" fillet weld according to the footnote application for the thinner material.  But, if both members are over 3/4" then you would want a 5/16" fillet weld.  And, if applicable, watch the other footnotes as well. 

Now I need to go back and re-read the rest of the original posts here but I think that should clarify my answer to the question and use the Table that was actually under consideration.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Fillet Size Interpretation, D1.1, Section 5.14, Table 5.8

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