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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / weld pipe to the thicker seamless pipe
- - By johnjava Date 10-05-2012 07:16
hallo,

i have a few question.

1. if i follow asme uw-16.1(c) single bevel to weld pipe neck to the sl pipe nps 16 sch.120. it can be take a time or more cost. any suggestion what can i do.
2. and please provide me any detail of the root size and any detail regarding the question above.
3. many thanks.
Parent - By electrode (***) Date 10-05-2012 12:43
Sir,

I'm running the risk indeed of being judged disrespectful.

Let me nonetheless tell you this; some wise words actually from a famous science fiction novel:

Sector 6 - 80 -- copy the sixth -- the
               summit -- the eight the quadrant over the
               ninth plus eighty -- four circles -- weave
               the eighty and call the fourth copy --
               enter nine -- seven by seven a seven the
               seven call seven B seven -- enter the
               circles call the sixth copy the sixth over
               the summit.... eight.

You got me?

You know, it was interesting to recently observe the activities at another board of this forum.

Somebody had asked, reasonable, questions and did receive one, I would say, tremendous positive and helpful, thus valuable feedback from some of the 'Big Boys' around here.

I'm asking you now. What is the difference between your own and the approach of the gentleman in the 'D1 Questions' section?

It will be interesting to learn, how much response you will obtain to your:

"...it can be take a time or more cost. any suggestion what can i do and please provide me any detail of the root size and any detail regarding the question above."

subject.

Don't get me wrong, but think about this a little.
Parent - - By 99205 (***) Date 10-05-2012 15:37
Do you have anyone at your place of employment, who has any experience with the code you asked about?
Parent - By qcrobert (***) Date 10-05-2012 22:18
I personally would "take a time rather than cost more"...

I think this belongs in the Off-topic Bar & Grill...:confused:

QCRobert
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 10-05-2012 22:33 Edited 10-06-2012 11:36
When welding two pipe ends of the same nominal size but one is thicker than the other (example: nps 8 inches, but one is Sch 40 and the other one is Sch 80), the Code allows that the inside diameter of the thicker pipe be ground with a grinding wheel until the two inside diameters are the same.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil

PS. English being not my mother language, I havn't understood a thing of what  Electrode said in his explanation.
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 10-05-2012 23:29
UW16.1  is acceptable types of welded nozzles and other connections so I don't see where the different sch of pipe is even addressed.

Alas, I don't understand the OP's inquiry.

As far as Electrode, its his accent that's difficult to understand.... :cool:

QCRobert
Parent - - By electrode (***) Date 10-06-2012 07:36
qcrobert,

no offence - I deeply appreciate your comment on my 'accent'.

You were saying something crucial:

"Alas, I don't understand the OP's inquiry."

Neither did I, thus leading to my first "response".

It could have also looked like:

ϰ_DM (T) ∂^2 T_D/∂z^2 + dϰ_DM/dT (∂T_D)/∂z)^2 + ∂T_D/∂z {c_pD (T_D ) ϱ_D∙υ_D}

without making any difference at all.

A question, being not understandable (to me) I dare to say, simply implies an infinite number of replies (to me).

So. Not even an explanation tried by myself.

Just a friendly hint toward the OP to maybe reconsider formulating his question(s) less confusing (to me*).

There are remarkable - positive - instances noticeable that show how this could work (see: D1 Questions).

Hope this makes it a little clearer, despite my 'accent'.

* But as I can see, maybe also to you.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-06-2012 15:21 Edited 10-06-2012 17:26
ac·cent  

n [ák sent] (plural ac·cents)
1.  manner of pronunciation: a way of pronouncing words that indicates the place of origin or social background of the speaker
a Southern accent

2.  intonation: a way of using intonation or inflection to convey the speaker’s mood or character
He answered with an accent of bitterness.

3.  stress on syllable: a greater emphasis in pronouncing a syllable within a word or a word within a phrase 
4.  mark above letter: a symbol used in print or writing to indicate stress or the pronunciation of a vowel 
5.  main emphasis: an aspect of a situation, issue, or state of affairs that is emphasized
the accent is on safety

6.  contrasting detail: a contrasting decorative feature used to add interest
a blue room with green accents in the furnishings

7.  style: a distinctive style that is characteristic of a particular person, region, or artistic school 
8.  music stress on notes: stress placed on particular notes in a piece of music, or the symbol printed above the notes to indicate this stress 
9.  mathematics mathematical symbol: a superscript symbol, ′ or ″, used to indicate a unit of measure such as feet and inches respectively or minutes and seconds of an arc respectively 

vt [ák sent, ak sént] (past ac·cent·ed, past participle ac·cent·ed, present participle ac·cent·ing, 3rd person present singular ac·cents)
1.  music emphasize something: to stress something, for example, by pronouncing a word or syllable more prominently 
2.  mark something with an accent: to mark a letter, word, or something else with a written or printed accent 

[Early 16th century. Via French , from Latin accentus , from ad “to” + cantus “singing” (source of English cantor, chant, and incentive), a literal translation of Greek prosōidia “accompanied song.”]
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Now, You must admit Electrode, you do have a distinctive "accent"  even if it is not the same as most people think of when discussing 'accent'.  Not like a 'southern' accent, or an 'English' accent.  You are just...YOU.  And you are distinctive.

BUT, as to this thread, I believe I caught your emphasis in your first response.  Thought it very appropriate.  The OP was more than a little difficult to even begin understanding.  While we all know that we occassionally have language barriers on this forum, that one went right past me.  I was hoping it was just a matter of someone from either the same geographic/language area or same code application arena seeing his post and coming to his aid.  Currently, that doesn't look like the problem and a solution may be down the road a bit when we finally hear back from the OP.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By electrode (***) Date 10-06-2012 16:25 Edited 10-06-2012 16:32
Thank you, qcrobert.
I do appreciate your friendly PM.

Thank you, welderbrent.
I do appreciate the time spent for writing and posting this (to me) friendly, and most explanatory response.

I seem to understand that I should try to settle what's driven me.

However, in rather 'plain language' this time.

I was, as still I am, confused by the OP's question.

That is: "WHAT does he actually mean?"

No doubt, these abbreviations, e.g. "nps 16 sch.120" are hard to grasp for somebody, i.e. myself, not born and raised in the US of A.

Anyway. What did confuse me in particular was - mingling:

"asme uw-16.1(c) single bevel"

with

"time or more cost"

with

"any detail of the root size"

with

"any detail regarding the question above"

for finally expecting one

"suggestion what can i do".

In spite of my personal ignorance on the terminology, which I hereby beg you to forgive me, it seems impossible to me to deduce the deeper sense of the OP's question.

WHAT, I'm asking, means 'root size'?

WHAT, I'm asking, means 'detail'?

WHAT, I'm asking, means 'more' in relation to WHAT?

Or should I treat the OP's question rather 'qualitatively'? Such as e.g.: "Here you go! My weld looks nicer than your weld!"?

Not really sure...

You know, I honestly was expecting my first "comment" to cause some reaction. And good it is (to me), it has.

No problem to admit. This forum is some great source of information. Actually, in my opinion, one of the best (at least qualitatively considered) in the welding world.

Simply speaking; because some real experienced individuals on a voluntary(!) basis provide and share knowledge, personal gained expertise and, invaluable actually, some considerable part of their lifetime with the world's welding community.

And, though hard to believe, the whole story is being dealt with in a mostly, at least, respectful way.

That is something, isn't it? I do not consider this "God-given", actually.

Anyway. Coming back to this thread. I just simply try to understand what the actual meaning of the OP's question was.

This because, even though I'm sure to be unable of contributing anything valuable to its response, I nonetheless would be allowed to learn from the answers given by you, gentlemen.

EDIT: I can see that, while I was writing my response, another post came in from qcrobert. THIS is the sort of information I was meaning to be provided by the OP. Good to see also the metric converted dimensions in qcrobert's last post!
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 10-06-2012 17:56
IMHO both Robert and Prof Gisi are headed in the correct direction, though the Professor may be more correct with the end butt connection of two pieces of pipe to tubing of the same general size and yet different because of wall thickness as well as OD variations between pipe and tubing (or seamless pipe).

But I was in the same boat as you have expressed Electrode.  When this first started I couldn't figure out in the least where he was coming from and what type of information he wanted.  And who really knows, the above 'assumption' could be totally off.

AND, this is still one of those "assumptions" as we are without much true information until Robert's questions are answered in more detail.

Robert, not a bad drawing but it is the strangest looking airplane I have ever seen (airplane detail)  :lol:  LOL!!  Had to say something based upon the language issues addressed in this thread. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By electrode (***) Date 10-06-2012 18:09
welderbrent,

I see.

Thank you!

NB: "Robert, not a bad drawing but it is the strangest looking airplane I have ever seen (airplane detail)  :lol:  LOL!!" -- I have to fully agree.
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 10-09-2012 00:15
Back in my days of erector engineer I ran many times into that situation: welding two pipes of the same nominal diameter but of diferent schedule; or even of the same schedule with different wall thicknesses. How is it possible? Taking into account that the wall thickness has a tolerance of minus 12,5%, if in two large pipes, say 14 inches sch 40, one has the correct thickness but the other one has minus 12,5%, there will be a diference of, say, a couple of millimeters in the wall thickness and four millimeters in the inside diameter.
In this case, the usual practice accepted by the codes is to grind the thicker pipe end with a grinding wheel until the two inside diameters are the same.

Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 10-09-2012 12:33
Thank you for clearing this up, Giovanni.  I believe what mixed me up was that thru further correspondence the OP stated i already draw the flange pipe neck dn40 sch.160 to the seamless pipe dn400 sch.120.   Therefore I thought the pipe diameters were were 1-1/2" and 16" respectively.  Now I think the dn400 sch 120 was a typo and should have been dn 40 sch 120.

I am familiar with correcting the IDs of the two mating pipe ends.  Thanks again for your input.  I hope this clears up the issue for Johnjava.

QCRobert
Parent - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 10-09-2012 20:44
I'm glad for having been of service to you and possibly also for Johnjava.
I suspect that when he says "flange pipe neck" he's actually referring to a welding neck pipe flange.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - - By qcrobert (***) Date 10-06-2012 16:21 Edited 10-06-2012 16:26
John,
If you could provide a drawing or crude sketch as I have presented here if would help greatly to better understand your questions.

Also please provide information such as;
1.  Code or standard weldment is being built to
2.  Pressure & operating temperature
3.  Process
4.  Material specification
5.  Filler metal specification
6.  Country of origin (may have bearing on applicable code or standard)

Please pardon my drafting skills as I am presently airborne.:eek:

Thank you,
QCRobert
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 10-10-2012 00:41
Guys,
Not sure where the poster mentioned butting two pipes together so not sure transitioning the thicker pipe (as noted by Giovanni) comes into the equation.
QW 16.1 (c) as noted shows one pipe (branch pipe) penetrating another pipe (run pipe).
I will take a stab and question whether the OP was requesting the difference in time / cost between a set in or set on branch.
Hypothetically, let's say branch pipe is 1/4" WT and the run pipe is 1/2" WT.
Stab in (QW 16.1 (c)) will require 1/2" thick weld + covering fillet
whereas
Stab on (QW 16.1 (a) will require 1/4" thick weld + covering fillet

I may be off base as I cannot locate any additional posting from the OP (as noted by Robert) pertaining to DN 400 or DN 40,
Cheers,
Shane
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / weld pipe to the thicker seamless pipe

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