D1.6 Question

Date 12-11-2012 17:09

Hi Scott,
Did there happen to be a drawing with welding symbols indicating how the joint was to be welded out?
If so, the symbol itself would/should have indicated if the joint was a fillet weld, a partial penetration weld, or a full penetration weld.
Just because it was to welded in accordance with D1.6 doesn't tell the welder how to weld the joint, and more expecit instructions(drawings with welding symbols typically) should be provided before the joint can be properly welded. Without drawings or welding symbols, there is no way to know which WPS(welding procedure) to use to be in accordance with D1.6.

EDIT...I read too quickly, you did mention drawings. Can you show us the welding symbol on the drawing? The symbol is the clue to your puzzle.

By sriley77 (*)

Date 12-11-2012 19:40

I can't seem to attach the part of the drawing, but it was just a square groove joint weld all around. Then the note says on one to be full pen, but not the others.

By CWI555

Date 12-11-2012 19:55

look for the word 'typical' on that drawing.

By eekpod

Date 12-12-2012 11:26

I have had this problem in the past and have learned from it the hard way the same as you.

Especially with the square groove weld symbol.
If you don't have a copy you need to get AWS A2.4 Standard Symbols for Welding, Brazing, and Non Destructive Examination". This will answer all your questions and help you, your shop personnel, and your detailers make the correct weld symbols and joint designations for your projects.

The "catch" that you found yourself in is this. Section 6.2.2 "Complete Joint Penetration- Omitting the depth of bevel and groove weld size dimensions from the welding symbol requires a groove weld that extends through the thickness of the joint." So unless for example in your situation if some of your symbols showed 1/8" weld size, you could use that to verifiy/confirm the weld doesn't need to go all the way through the joint vs no dimensions, otherwise as in your situation it is assumed it is required to go all the way through.

I added to my detailing standard a note just for this situation so that our detailers and our shop standard is a partial joint penetration butt weld unless noted otherwise just to keep what happened to you from happening. If someone questionned me I could go back and point out in writing our standard and why we do it. I did this becasue when we were welding 1/4" thick cap plates to the end of HSS tubes just to close them off, I was getting questioned about that should be a CJP weld with root openings and such; it's just a cap, there is no structural intention for that part.
Now just make sure your contract drawings and specification call for some to be PJP and others CJP. That is most likely why you have two different symbols; one with the note in the tail and others without.

Hope this helped.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 12-12-2012 13:48

I think Chris may be on to your problem...without seeing the weld symbol, and reading that you mention square groove all around, I'm going to assume that there wasn't a weld size shown on this symbol which would make it a full penetration weld vs a partial penetration weld.

If a weld size was shown in this square groove symbol, it would have been PJP, without any weld size shown it becomes CJP, by default.

Is it too late to correct the joint by back-gouging the root out from the backside and re-welding?

By js55

Date 12-12-2012 13:13

I have much easier solution to all of this.
Ask the inspector where the requirement is.
Thi shappnes all of the time. The solutionis ALWAYS to communicate with the inspectors to be sure you are all onthe same page.
In each case someone is going to learn something. It may be you, it may be the inspector.

By sriley77 (*)

Date 12-13-2012 11:58

Thank you all for the replies. No it doesn't specify a weld size and now after reading your posts I remember what it defaults to. we could back gouge and repair, but "we're" not sure what we want to do yet. The other problem was the supervisor decided to not have me in on this project and started it when I was on vacation so no questions were asked to determine what the symbols meant BEFORE welding. Again, thank you.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 12-13-2012 15:30

Monte,

See response to your thread in the 'Shop Talk' section.

Please try to refrain from posting the same query more than once. It only confuses the train of thoughts from those responding and much can get lost in the translation.

Also, using your own thread, as in the other posting, is usually the best way to ask a question unless it is pretty closely related to the current discussion.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By eekpod

Date 12-14-2012 14:34

sriley77

Yes I have had that happen to me numerous times over the years, the shop super or formen didn't want to know or didn't care, they we told to just get it done.
Then this happens, It's not your fault, just remember that if the third party inspector won't buy off on the repair, then I woulndt do it.
Do the right thing now that you can, if there willing.
Good luck