Section VIII Endorsement

Date 12-11-2012 21:12

I'd like someone to explain to me how AWS can have a Section VIII endorsement when there essentially isn't any VT in Section VIII.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 12-12-2012 02:59

AWS offers two ASME Endorsement Exams: 1) Section VIII with B31.1 & B31.3 and 2) Section VIII, Division I with Section IX

As I am very unfamiliar with ASME I am unsure about the connection, but don't the B31.1, B31.3, and Section IX deal with inspections? So you would put them together with Section VIII in order to complete the requirements of all the sections.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By js55

Date 12-12-2012 13:07

Secton IX is perhaps a little more explainable, I guess, from the AWS perspective. But the Section VIII thing is interesting. There really isn't anything for an inspector to do in compliance with Section VIII.
Inspectors involved in Section VIII would be operating in compliance with customer specs or company programs(though there are a couple of paragraphs in Section VIII that hint at visual inspection). Now, having an understanding of Section VIII is certainly encouraged in these cases but AWS slippin in there is a bit of a reach IMO. I mean, they can teach and provide endorsements but it seems to me the endorsements don't mean anything since they have no purpose other than training. In other words, what are they endorsements to do? We endorse that this particular individual is trained to inspect to the requirements of ASME Section VIII. What requirements? The requirments for inspeciton to Section VIII are of the National Board variety. In other words, for AI's.
Also, the Section VIII 31.1/31.3 connection seems odd. I can see Section I and 31.1 due to BEP, but the others I don't see.

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 12-12-2012 14:30

I don't know. Somehow they felt there was enough of a connection that they deemed it important to link Section VIII to both exams. There must be enough info there that fills in the gaps of what the inspector is actually inspecting for/to. Just a guess on my part. I don't inspect to them, haven't welded to them in years, and am not on any of the committee's that set up the exams.

Maybe someone who has taken this Endorsement Exam could add their comments in here and let us know more. Would be interesting to know and would answer the OP's question.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By welderbrent (*****)

Date 12-12-2012 03:12

Ede,

WELCOME TO THE AWS WELDING FORUM!!

No, I don't know of the Body of Knowledge for the ASME Endorsement. I'll do some more checking to see what I can find.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By ede Date 12-21-2012 12:43

AWS offers a Sec.IX, B31.3 and B31.3 endorsement and a Sec.VIII, Sec. IX endorsement, among others. I've done Sec.IX, B31.1, B31.3 and D1.1. After I finish Sec.VIII exam in Feb. I'll start working on the bolting exam in June, then I'll be done with AWS for a while. Think I'm going to try 570 in September without a prep class and see how it goes.

It doesn't seem odd or much of a streach for AWS to offer an endorsement exam to Sec. VIII. Sec. VIII has inspection requirements, mostly of the NDE sort that would need performed, or verified as being performed. Also fabrication and welding requirements that an inspector would or should verify.

By js55

Date 12-21-2012 14:02

ede,
AWS has no jusrisdiction over NDE methods such as MT/PT which are required in Section VIII. There are no VT requirements or acceptance criteria in Section VIII. So when I say reach I intend the absence of jurisdiction unless the intent for AWS is to move into new turf. Which I think it is. ASME is doing the same thing.
What this means to me currently is that a Section VIII endorsement by AWS means nothing except that you have taken a Section VIII course and have some knowledge. Valuable to be sure but from a certification standpoint, its as meaningless as a TC-1A cert with a new employer.

By ede Date 12-21-2012 16:57

Maybe I'll rethink this and see how much money I stand to give up if I cancel the exam. I wasn't taking a course so wouldn't have anything to show as far as training. I was thinking this might benifit me at some point, but for the 500$ it'll cost me for the exam I might be ahead to not do it.

By js55

Date 12-24-2012 13:00

The intent was not to discourage participation. I believe the experience would be of value. The intent was simply to create and awareness that there is no requirement for such endorsements (ASME does not even recognize the CWI certification), and to my knowledge there isn't any demand for such either. Having said this I fully ensorse the educational benefits of such but its value when you are paying for it yourself I obviously leave to your own judgment.

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 01-12-2013 03:37

Jeff; in response to your posting: "I'd like someone to explain to me how AWS can have a Section VIII endorsement when there essentially isn't any VT in Section VIII."

An endorsement, as you likely suspect, means zip, zero, zilch, nada in the "real world." I was Staff Secretary for the B5 Committee when the concept was first broached (in fact, I may have even been "the" original person who proposed the idea). The notion and concept was "how can AWS put another twist on the cash cow and generate even more income from the CWI Program." You can thank Jeff Hufsey and Frank DeLaurier for the follow on implementation.

In this same thread, you mention that you fail to see the ASME B31 connection with ASME VIII ~ this is a real surprise to me, have I misread?

Hope all is well with all my old friends, I come into the Forum far less frequent these days, it just doesn't have the same feeling for me as it used to.

Happy New Year one and all.

By 803056

Date 01-14-2013 04:49

There are many CWIs that work with employers or clients engaged in fabricating to AWS, ASME, API, ABS, NAVSEA, and other military welding standards. Whether the code requires or recognizes the CWI certification isn't the question. The question is whether the CWI has a working knowledge of the welding/fabrication standard used by the employer or the client.

One of the comments often heard from employers and clients is whether a CWI is familiar with a specific welding/fabrication standard. The endorsement offers a vehicle whereby the CWI can demonstrate his familiarity with a specific welding standard and provides documented evidence that an examination has been successfully passed. It is an examination offered by an internationally recognized professional society.

The endorsements are not mandated by any welding code, AWS D1.X included, but is increasingly requested by potential employers looking to hire qualified inspectors and customers seeking a third party inspection agency with qualified people to perform QC/QA functions.

The additional benefit of an endorsement is that it is one additional means of fulfilling the 9 year recertification requirement. The endorsements are an option permitted by QC1 allowing a CWI to meet the requirements of the 9 year recertification. It is easier for many CWIs to take an endorsement examination rather than acquire 80 PDHs or retaking the Part B Practical Examination to meet the recertification requirements.

If an endorsement isn't something an existing CWI wants or needs, there is no one twisting their arm to take an endorsement examination.

I, for one, use my endorsements as a marketing tool to separate myself from the rest of the herd. It seems to be working. I sell my services based on my demonstrated expertise rather than (low) price. Clients that are looking for the lowest price have to look elsewhere. My endorsements are just additional credentials I show to prospective clients.

I guess it is a case of saying "I'm the best" versus showing the client you have attained a level of expertise.

Best regards - Al

By ANDTLIII Date 02-08-2013 16:33

ede,

As everyone has stated according to ASME, the endosement is basically useless, however it may be a good marketing tool. You may be better served by taking a couple of the National Board online courses which upon sucessful completion they will issue you a certificate. The below course is a good one for someone who wants to show they hve knowledge of section VIII and it is all for $150.00. Even though it is tailored to the "UM" requirements, it still covers most of the basic fundamentals of Section VIII. I have had all of the QC inspectors that work for me take this course just to gain additional familiarity with Section VIII. You can go to www.nationalboard.org to see all of their couse offerings.

Hope this helps.

Certified Individual: Unfired Miniature Pressure Vessels, is an online course covering ASME Section VIII, Div. 1, Rules for Construction of Pressure Vessels.

This course has been prepared for ASME "UM" certificate holders in preparing their employees for designation as Certified Individuals. The focus is on the Certified Individual's responsibilities, duties, and ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code requirements applicable to unfired miniature pressure vessel manufacturers.

Although this course is designed for the Certified Individual, anyone involved with unfired miniature pressure vessel construction and inspection may benefit from this training.

Students will need to obtain their own copy of ASME Section VIII, Div. 1 to use as a reference, and to follow along with the course material. Note: ASME Code Books may be ordered through the ASME Web site.

Working straight through the material, it is estimated the course takes approximately four hours to complete.

What Is Covered
The course curriculum comprises the following:

Section VIII, Div. 1: Introduction
Scope
General
Subsection A: General Requirements
Part UG: General Requirements for All Methods of Construction and All Materials
Subsection B: Requirements Pertaining to Methods of Fabrication of Pressure Vessels Requirements for Pressure Vessels Fabricated by:
Part UW: Welding
Part UF: Forging
Part UB: Brazing
Subsection C: Requirements Pertaining to Class of Materials Requirements for Pressure Vessels Constructed of:
Part UCF: Carbon and Low Alloy Steels
Part UNF: Nonferrous Materials
Part UHA: High Alloy Steel
Learning Outcomes
After completing this course, students will be able to:

locate key information in the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, Section VIII Div. 1, that relates to unfired miniature pressure vessels;
identify the main duties of a Certified Individual; and
describe the purpose of the ASME form related to unfired miniature pressure vessels and determine when it should be used.
Reference Materials
Each student is required to have the following materials (currently mandated edition):

ASME Section VIII, Div. 1
Criteria for Successful Completion
As a minimum, for a National Board Certificate of Completion to be issued, students must:

actively participate in all online course interactions
responding to all knowledge check questions
achieve a passing score of 70% or higher on the final assessment
complete the course evaluation survey