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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Canadian Welding
- - By ede Date 12-26-2012 15:41
Not sure where to ask and this looked like the best spot to ask. I have a supplier in Canada which I have a few issues with. I ask for a WPS and was told they don't have one, at least a written one since it isn't required in Canada and they'd ty to put something together for me to see what they're doing, or what they did.

I have no idea how things operate in Canada but can not believe they don't have a written WPS like or similar to what I use here in the USA. Does anyone know? Thanks in advance.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-26-2012 18:36
Welcome to the forum Ede

It's a rather large topic and you have provide rather scant data.

The shortest answer is that your supplier is required to comply with the provisions you and he agreed to together in your contract. 

If your contract does not stipulate a code, than I don't really see how you can hold your supplier to a covenant you have not agreed upon.

Lot's of U.S. manufacturers produce welded joints that are not compliant with any code and are made without a WPS.  Nothing new there at all.  

Canada in my opinion is more regulated rather than less regulated than the U.S. as the Canadian Welding Bureau is a government agency as opposed to the AWS which is a Non Profit org.

Say more about your issue.
Parent - - By ede Date 12-26-2012 19:33
I left a few details out to simplify my question. The weld in question involves rail road equipment. The supplier of the bad welds is a sub to who I have a contrct with. The supplier of the bad welds is European with a location in Texas and the fabrication done in Canada. My problem welds are made on material with a CE of .58 and .8X. I'd think regradless of contract requirements they'd have something to perform welding to other than the "this is how we do it unwritten WPS". When ask for a WPS they orginally said "we'll get it to you this afternoon" then that changed to "we're working on one for you" and now the latest from them is " we don't have a written procedure". I have no idea if anything was fabricated to a code or if one was specified since we don't have access to that info. We're all getting together in a week to talk about out problems and I was wanting to gather a little background info on requirements in Canada.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 12-26-2012 22:07 Edited 12-26-2012 22:38
It has absolutly nothing to do with the requirments in Canada and has everything to do with the requirments in your purchase order and contract.. It's really that simple.

If you don't agree upon a requirement as the OEM or their representative, the buck for poor workmanship will probably fall on your doorstep.

As already mentioned... The disturbing responses you recieved from the contractor are probably exactly the same disturbing response you would get from an American contractor if you did not settle on a quality program and requiremts at the outset of your dealings.
.
Discovering your own quality requirements and those written into your purchase order and contract doccumentation is the very first step you need to take... You can offer no righteous criticisim without a written level of quality and inspection expectations.

I know this sounds harsh... But it is beginning to sound like you are simply getting the usual response from the low bidder.

Edit:  You might want to look specifically in your contract for language referring to AWS D15.1 Railroad Welding Specification for Cars and Locomotives
http://pubs.aws.org/download/previews/Pages%20from%20D15.1-D15.1M-2012.pdf

This may also help... But if your product line is delivered to the U.S. it's doubtful
http://eng.cwbgroup.org/Documents/0350e-ApplicationForCertificationtoW1781.pdf

Edit Edit:
The attached form is a copy from the CWB website.. Also might be useful in future bid work
Attachment: CWBInspectionSupervisorForm.pdf (122k)
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 12-26-2012 22:33
Overall I agree with Lawrence.

You need to see if your contract docs have any reference to either the work and/or inspections being done to a particular code.

Another possibility, is there any reference to items being submitted for approval before work was to begin?  That is a pretty normal construction condition.  To which all applicable WPS's, welder's certs, shop drawings, etc are to be submitted for approval.  Is it a requirement?  If so, Did you ever receive them?

You say you don't have accesss to the info on which if any code was specified.  That is not an option.  You ordered it.  You should have specified a code. 

How did you choose their product?  By anykind of written product description?  That may be of help. 

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Canadian Welding

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